"I heard something"....

[urout17]

First game of the season last night, HS varsity, pretty good game.  R1, outs don't matter.  R1 stealing on the pitch.  Batter swings and foul tips directly into the catchers glove, no problem there.  Catcher throws down and R1 beats the throw.  As the SS is tossing the ball back to the pitcher, R1 stands up and the conversation between the two of them goes like this:

R1: "Didn't he foul that pitch?"

SS: "I heard something like it hit the bat"....as he starts walking back to his position.

R1: "Don't I need to go back to first?".....and takes about 2-3 steps off the bag towards first.  Mind you, neither of them, especially R1, asks me, who's standing right there.

I totally understand we're not out there to coach players but I tell the kid to get back on the bag. He turns around, goes back to 2B and nobody is the wiser about what just happened.

I asked a few other fellow umpires and one of them said he'd let it play out.

You know what I did.  How would you have handled this?

[maven]

For me, it depends on the level. HS JV and up, I'd let it go—I'd rather have an out!

Below that, I'd simply state the fact: it was a foul tip. That explains the runner's perception without coaching him on the proper action to take.

If he doesn't know what a foul tip entails and gets put out, that will be a learning experience. If he asks a follow up, I'll refer him to his coach.

[Velho]

Hypothetical alternate scenario: SS holds on to ball, says to R1 "it was foul", and tags R1 for out. What then?

[Thunderheads]

1 hour ago, maven said:

For me, it depends on the level. HS JV and up, I'd let it go—I'd rather have an out!

Below that, I'd simply state the fact: it was a foul tip. That explains the runner's perception without coaching him on the proper action to take.

If he doesn't know what a foul tip entails and gets put out, that will be a learning experience. If he asks a follow up, I'll refer him to his coach.

While this is truly the way to go on this, I can understand why @urout17 said what he said (not condoning it, just saying I understand).  You don't say anything, he gets tagged out, then you're the 'dickhead' umpire who didn't answer a question (NO, not our job, but you understand).

More to @maven's comment about "that was a foul tip", you could also say "that's a live ball".  However, again, the learning experience is best, especially in a varsity game.

[noumpere]

44 minutes ago, Velho said:

Hypothetical alternate scenario: SS holds on to ball, says to R1 "it was foul", and tags R1 for out. What then?

Depends.  If this was the third out, defense tosses the ball toward the mound and leaves the field.

If this was the first or second out, defense "throws the ball around"

[MadMax]

2 hours ago, urout17 said:

Mind you, neither of them, especially R1, asks me, who's standing right there.

The Red Jackets at HWUS drilled into us a mantra – "common sense, and fair play", (emphasis mine; they also drilled into us several other "mantras" that will haunt us in our most boring games, I'm sure). 

Professional baseball has an element to it, that we collectively wince at, talk in hushed tones about, and ever so often, one of us "baseball guys" will say, "Baseball takes care of itself." This often means that if you're acting like a jacka$$ or d!ckh3ad, you're going to get spiked or wear a fastball in the ribs. Yeah, telling a Runner who has successfully stolen 2B (or 3B) that the pitch was actually fouled off is a d!ckh3ad move. And d!ckh3ad moves bring their own justice. 

However, we can't have that – the "diamond justice meted out" – in amateur baseball. And yes, college is amateur baseball. As such, these sorts of jacka$$ shenanigans are what incite the riotous behavior that befalls the amateur game. "Aw, that's bush league!" is a frequent label put onto it. So, it is not coaching players to simply state what the status of the ball is. We do (and have been instructed and directed to do) similar things on such plays involving appeals, potential INT calls, etc... "Stay there!", you'll often hear. Is that not coaching?? Hmmmm? 

Just be factual. State what it was. "It was a foul tip", "It's still a live ball", or "Nah, it wasn't a fouled off (refuting what F6 is saying)" are all effective and acceptable. 

6 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Depends.  If this was the third out, defense tosses the ball toward the mound and leaves the field.

If this was the first or second out, defense "throws the ball around"

In OBR, this is nothing... I got that part... but in NFHS, there's a distinctive section covering "fake tags" or "dekes" or "decoys" being construed and penalized as OBS. Similarly, we have verbal INT for Runners, while passing, calling out to a Fielder positioned for a pop-up "I've got it!", or yelling at a F1 "Balk!". So, is this, in the amateur game, not a form of verbal OBS? I'm not advocating for hitting a staple with a pile driver – of calling OBS for this and awarding 3B – but I am advocating for "nipping it in the bud", stamping out the fire before it sparks, and saying, "Don't do that (to the F6)", and "It was a foul tip, live ball, you're fine right there (to the Runner)".

[Senor Azul]

Mr. urout17, you may have missed an out opportunity as Mr. maven suggests, but you also may have missed a big headache if you had let the situation play out as suggested by your fellow umpires--if you had let things play out you probably would have had both coaches to deal with. You see, in high school rules there is such a thing as verbal obstruction that is mentioned in its rule 2-22-1.

2019 NFHS rule 2 SECTION 22 OBSTRUCTION AND FAKE TAG

ART. 1 . . . Obstruction is an act (intentional or unintentional, as well as - physical or verbal) by a fielder, any member of the defensive team or its team personnel that hinders a runner or changes the pattern of play as in 5-1-3 and 8-3-2; or when a catcher or fielder hinders a batter as in 5-1-2b, 8-1-1e, 8-3-1c and 8-3-2. When obstruction occurs, the ball becomes dead at the end of playing action and the umpire has authority to determine which base or bases shall be awarded the runners according to the rule violated (Exceptions 8-4-2c, 8-4-2d).

2019 NFHS Case Book play 2.22.1 Situation A: R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells "get back, get back." R1 thinks B2 has hit a pop-up and starts back to first where he is tagged out. RULING: This is verbal obstruction and R1 shall be awarded second base.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2016 BRD (section 375, pp. 250-51):  Verbal obstruction is treated the same as physical obstruction. PENALTY:  The obstructed runner is awarded one base in advance of his position on base. (2-22-1; 2.22.1a)

FED Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  When a defensive player lies and tells a runner that a passed ball was a foul ball, the fielder is guilty of verbal obstruction.

FED Official Interpretation:  Hopkins:  Any verbal decoy, such as “I’ve got it,” is obstruction. (Website 2001 #14)

2001 SITUATION 14: With runners on first and second and one out, the batter hits a ground ball to the shortstop. The second baseman calls "I got it" and acts as if it is a pop-up. The runners stay at their respective bases and a double play is made, second to first. RULING: This is verbal obstruction. Runners will be awarded third and second. There are two outs since the out on the batter-runner will stand. (2-22-1; 8-3-2)

Official Interpretation:  Hopkins:  If a defensive player tries to confuse an opponent by yelling “Go!” to a runner tagging, the umpire declares verbal obstruction if the affected runner reacts to the opponent’s attempt to confuse. PENALTY:  The affected runner is awarded one base. The umpire warns the player committing the act. (Website 2004 #12)

SITUATION 12: With R3 on third, B2 hits a fly ball to the outfield. As the runner on third tags, the defensive coach (in the third-base dugout) yells, “Go, go, go,” to the runner tagging. R3, as a consequence, leaves the base before the catch and must return to tag the base. RULING: This is verbal obstruction. At the end of playing action, U1 will award R3 home due to the obstruction. U1 will also warn the coach that his actions are not in accordance with fair play. (2-22-1, 3-3-1g-4, 8-3-2)

[aaluck]

It's obstruction and unsportsmanlike conduct at the high school level, or below.

Whether you decide to call one, both or neither is up to you.

[umpstu]

4 hours ago, urout17 said:

First game of the season last night, HS varsity, pretty good game.  R1, outs don't matter.  R1 stealing on the pitch.  Batter swings and foul tips directly into the catchers glove, no problem there.  Catcher throws down and R1 beats the throw.  As the SS is tossing the ball back to the pitcher, R1 stands up and the conversation between the two of them goes like this:

R1: "Didn't he foul that pitch?"

SS: "I heard something like it hit the bat"....as he starts walking back to his position.

R1: "Don't I need to go back to first?".....and takes about 2-3 steps off the bag towards first.  Mind you, neither of them, especially R1, asks me, who's standing right there.

I totally understand we're not out there to coach players but I tell the kid to get back on the bag. He turns around, goes back to 2B and nobody is the wiser about what just happened.

I asked a few other fellow umpires and one of them said he'd let it play out.

You know what I did.  How would you have handled this?

I had this exact play in a hs jv game last week.  Not good ball players.  Not good coaches, either team.  Wound up 18-7.

Foul tip and the 3rd base coach starts to send his own player back to first.  Obviously a teaching moment in a mean nothing game and the coaches don't know the rules.  So I called time, explained the rule loud enough for all to hear and sent the runner back to 2nd base.  Got a lot of thank you from both teams and the game continued to it's conclusion.  Turns out the 3rd base coach is one heck of a wrestling coach for a baseball coach.  Sometimes you have to use common sense in these types of situations.

[urout17]

It's great to hear how others would handle this or other situations.  Just to be clear, by no means did the SS intend to confuse or cause any obstruction with the play.  They both had no idea what the ruling was.  Had the SS (or any other player) done anything to instigate something else I would have ruled accordingly.

Thanks for everyone's feedback!

[MadMax]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:10 AM, urout17 said:

Just to be clear, by no means did the SS intend to confuse or cause any obstruction with the play.  They both had no idea what the ruling was.  Had the SS (or any other player) done anything to instigate something else I would have ruled accordingly.

Quote

Sometimes you have to use common sense in these types of situations.

And this is why context is so vital to an umpire's role. 

PS - Empty quote attributed to @umpstu, as per above.