2022 Annual NFHS Interpretations

[Thunderheads]

On 2/19/2022 at 11:24 PM, johnnyg08 said:

That's kind of silly. We allow one compression sleeve. There's really no difference. 

Well, ...it's NFHS stuff ... A LOT of it is silly.  I'm confirming what I posted just to make sure my brain remembered it properly! 😆

[johnnyg08]

5 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Well, ...it's NFHS stuff ... A LOT of it is silly.  I'm confirming what I posted just to make sure my brain remembered it properly! 😆

I imagine that we're not going to have an issue if the wrist band (non-white or gray) is worn on the glove hand/wrist. 

[Thunderheads]

18 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

I imagine that we're not going to have an issue if the wrist band (non-white or gray) is worn on the glove hand/wrist. 

CONFIRMED FROM MICHIGAN .... F1 can NOT wear a wrist-band-play-card on EITHER arm, but can be worn on his belt.

[Velho]

2 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

CONFIRMED FROM MICHIGAN .... F1 can NOT wear a wrist-band-play-card on EITHER arm, but can be worn on his belt.

[dad joke] can F1 wear it on his upper arm if he's a yooper? [/dad joke]

[johnnyg08]

10 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

CONFIRMED FROM MICHIGAN .... F1 can NOT wear a wrist-band-play-card on EITHER arm, but can be worn on his belt.

That's amazing. Completely opposite of the NFHS interp. 

[Thunderheads]

13 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

That's amazing. Completely opposite of the NFHS interp. 

Well, what can we do but abide?  Anyhow, ... what's interesting is the response comment I also received:  "at what point do we know or can determine if it's a play card DESIGNED to be worn on the belt?  Where does it stop?"

kind of an interesting point of view ....

[johnnyg08]

2 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Well, what can we do but abide?  Anyhow, ... what's interesting is the response comment I also received:  "at what point do we know or can determine if it's a play card DESIGNED to be worn on the belt?  Where does it stop?"

kind of an interesting point of view ....

Of course...but it's funny to me that the state blatantly ignores an official interpretation, then doubles down and says that wrist bands can't be work on the wrist(s)! WOW

[Thunderheads]

5 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Of course...but it's funny to me that the state blatantly ignores an official interpretation, then doubles down and says that wrist bands can't be work on the wrist(s)! WOW

for F1 ...

[johnnyg08]

1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

for F1 ...

Yes. I know you don't make the rules, but that's ridiculous.

[Thunderheads]

17 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Yes. I know you don't make the rules, but that's ridiculous.

I can see that,... it's really no different than a  non-distracting sleeve (of course, as long as it's non-distracting  )

[johnnyg08]

4 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

I can see that,... it's really no different than a  non-distracting sleeve (of course, as long as it's non-distracting  )

That's my point. And distracting also gets over used. 

[blue23ll]

On 2/10/2022 at 5:10 AM, maven said:

Do we think situation 8 would be legal if the team had no spear? 

I once stopped a game on an open field (no outfield fence) because the school track team had their javelin throwers out in the outfield practicing.  They didn't have javelin throwing when I was in HS.....

 

[Richvee]

I want to revisit this. 
I have 2 scenarios that I would love opinions on. 
 

SITUATION 20: With runners on first and third there are two outs. The batter hits a fly ball to right field. R3 immediately comes home, but R1, thinking there is only one out, remains on first base to tag up. The first base coach sees R1 still at first base and gives R1 a slight push to get moving. R3 has crossed the plate just before the push and the fly ball falls at F9’s feet for a base hit. RULING: When a coach physically assists a runner during playing action, the assisted runner is called out immediately and the ball remains live and in play. This is a timing play and the run will count since R3 touched home prior to the out being declared. The defense did not force R3 out so the third out is not considered to be a force out. (8-4-2s, 3-2-2, 9-1-1)

“ when a coach physically assists…. The runner is called out immediately and the ball remains alive and in play. “

The coach assist is the third out. What happens if F 9 picks up the ball  and forces R 1 at 2B?  Does this negate the run?  ( unless it’s a typo and the last sentence of the ruling should say “ the defense did not force R1 out? …Meaning they never made a play on R1 or he was safe at 2B?  In that case I get it. Score the run because the run scored before the assist) 
 

What if F 9 makes the catch?? But R 3 touched home, then coach pushes R1, then F9 makes the catch?  Ignore the assist? Seems BR doesn’t reach 1b in the catch scenario so no run. 

[Richvee]

20 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I want to revisit this. 
I have 2 scenarios that I would love opinions on. 
 

SITUATION 20: With runners on first and third there are two outs. The batter hits a fly ball to right field. R3 immediately comes home, but R1, thinking there is only one out, remains on first base to tag up. The first base coach sees R1 still at first base and gives R1 a slight push to get moving. R3 has crossed the plate just before the push and the fly ball falls at F9’s feet for a base hit. RULING: When a coach physically assists a runner during playing action, the assisted runner is called out immediately and the ball remains live and in play. This is a timing play and the run will count since R3 touched home prior to the out being declared. The defense did not force R3 out so the third out is not considered to be a force out. (8-4-2s, 3-2-2, 9-1-1)

“ when a coach physically assists…. The runner is called out immediately and the ball remains alive and in play. “

The coach assist is the third out. What happens if F 9 picks up the ball  and forces R 1 at 2B?  Does this negate the run?  ( unless it’s a typo and the last sentence of the ruling should say “ the defense did not force R1 out? …Meaning they never made a play on R1 or he was safe at 2B?  In that case I get it. Score the run because the run scored before the assist) 
 

What if F 9 makes the catch?? But R 3 touched home, then coach pushes R1, then F9 makes the catch?  Ignore the assist? Seems BR doesn’t reach 1b in the catch scenario so no run. 

So I’ll answer my own question with answers I received from our state interpreter. 
The easy one. If the catch is made no run can score. Easy

For picking up the ball and forcing R1 at 2B, he says that can’t happen, because R 1 is declared out immediately, so there’s no runner to force out at 2B. Score the run. 
That just doesn’t sit well with me. You’re giving the offense a run for breaking the rules. 

[flyingron]

11 hours ago, Richvee said:

I want to revisit this. 
I have 2 scenarios that I would love opinions on. 
 

SITUATION 20: With runners on first and third there are two outs.  

The coach assist is the third out. What happens if F 9 picks up the ball  and forces R 1 at 2B?  Does this negate the run?  ( unless it’s a typo and the last sentence of the ruling should say “ the defense did not force R1 out? …Meaning they never made a play on R1 or he was safe at 2B?  In that case I get it. Score the run because the run scored before the assist) 
 

What if F 9 makes the catch?? But R 3 touched home, then coach pushes R1, then F9 makes the catch?  Ignore the assist? Seems BR doesn’t reach 1b in the catch scenario so no run. 

Isn't this the classic fourth out situation? 

Rule 9. Art. 1. e.  when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning, the defensive team may select which is to its advantage as in 2-20-2.    

[Kevin_K]

3 hours ago, flyingron said:

Isn't this the classic fourth out situation? 

Rule 9. Art. 1. e.  when there is more than one out declared by the umpire which terminates the half inning, the defensive team may select which is to its advantage as in 2-20-2.    

There is only one out called by the umpire if the ball is dropped by F9 - R1 who was assisted by his coach. The interpretation indicates the runner is out immediately. R1 cannot be called out twice.

Which runner will you be calling out to get the fourth out?

 

@Richvee and I went back and forth on this. Two work arounds are beyond typical umpiring guidelines, but may be appropriate in this atypical play They could be:

• The coach assisted the runner? I didn't see that.
• MSU - they will never know that the runner is immediately out because of the assistance; allow it to play out, grab the force at 2B, and nullify the run because a run cannot score on a third out resulting from  a force play. 

I agree with @Richvee that the offense should not be rewarded on this play

[Velho]

39 minutes ago, Kevin_K said:

allow it to play out, grab the force at 2B, and nullify the run because a run cannot score on a third out resulting from  a force play. 

If R1 is forced out at 2B, did the coach really "assist"?  

[wolfe_man]

2 minutes ago, Velho said:

If R1 is forced out at 2B, did the coach really "assist"?  

I can empathize with your view, but it's the optics.

If DT sees OC "assist" a runner, no matter how small/insignificant that it appears, and you don't call it... then you're going to have an angry DHC to deal with.  

I'm speaking from experience here.  I had one a few years back that I didn't call because I didn't think it affected the play.  I'll never do that again!  If any coach touches a runner and I see it, I get the out for interference. 

I don't want to over-officiate, but they know the rules too and I can't pass them up just because I think it didn't affect the play.  The rule is the rule. No touching/assisting allowed, period.

[Velho]

I hear you and am with you @wolfe_man. I was being a smart-ass.

The rules are the rules - flawed they may be. The only wiggle I can conceive is, if you believed the coach did it intentionally to game the rules, you could maybe go after unsportsmanlike conduct or similar.

20 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

No touching/assisting allowed, period.

Just for clarity to avoid confusion (I know wolfie knows this): "touching" of high fives and the like are allowed.

[Senor Azul]

This doesn’t answer your question but we have an unusual situation here of the high school rule agreeing with the pro rule and the college rule being different. Current NCAA rule 3-3e says the penalty for coach assistance is a delayed dead ball and the runner shall be declared out at the conclusion of the play.

Something else about the high school rule—it hasn’t been in existence that long. The NFHS revised its rule about coach assistance in 2017 which happens to coincide with our very own Mr. lawump’s tenure on the rules committee. Perhaps he can shed some light on this issue. Did the committee discuss the possibility of a coach-assisted runner being forced at the time of the assistance?