NHFS Force Play Slide Rule

[Kyle Flanagan]

NFHS RULES

Force play slide rule.  Runner on first, 0 outs.  Ground ball to SS  -throws to 2B covering second base for an out.  Second baseman turns to throw to 1st for a Double play.  R1 does not slide , but makes no contact with fielder at all.  He just casually runs to 2B.  Runner at first is safe.  However in my opinion, by not sliding R1 interferes with the second baseman's throw to 1st base.  Do I have a Double Play?  If so,  does the play at first base need to close enough that the interference caused him to be safe?  What if the defense had no shot at a DP, interference or not?  Is it an automatic DP if interference is called?  Thanks!  I know the runner does not need to slide, but I believe the runner needs to "Peel off" to allow a throw to 1B.  

[noumpere]

It doesn't matter whether a play at first was likely or probable -- it's still a FPSR violation and two are out.

[maven]

People sometimes confuse the penalties for runner INT and FPSR.

For INT that is not FPSR, we have to rule on whether a double play is possible (and in this context, possible = likely). If so, the call out the other runner (not necessarily the BR, as when a runner would be doubled off after a catch).

For FPSR, the penalty includes calling out the BR (who can't be out on a catch, for instance, because otherwise it wouldn't be a force play). No additional judgment required: it's just part of the penalty for FPSR violations.

[flyingron]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

It doesn't matter whether a play at first was likely or probable -- it's still a FPSR violation and two are out.

Eh, it can't be a FPSR violation if there is no slide.

 

[SH0102]

20 minutes ago, flyingron said:

Eh, it can't be a FPSR violation if there is no slide.

 

Eh, yes it can.  The rule does not say IF they slide, they must do so legally.  (Though this is required as well obviously)

It says, in a force play (and while in vicinity of the base), the runner MUST slide OR veer away from the fielder.

Running straight in meets neither requirement.  Now, if the guy is 40 feet from second, no, he doesn’t need to slide or veer away, but that’s bc of the “vicinity of base” portion, not bc you think only an illegal slide can constitute FPSR

[UMP45]

1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

Eh, yes it can.  The rule does not say IF they slide, they must do so legally.  (Though this is required as well obviously)

It says, in a force play (and while in vicinity of the base), the runner MUST slide OR veer away from the fielder.

Running straight in meets neither requirement.  Now, if the guy is 40 feet from second, no, he doesn’t need to slide or veer away, but that’s bc of the “vicinity of base” portion, not bc you think only an illegal slide can constitute FPSR

Don't forget there is something else in the FPSR that says "illegally ALTERS the actions of a fielder....".

[Thunderheads]

15 hours ago, flyingron said:

Eh, it can't be a FPSR violation if there is no slide.

 

That couldn't be further from the truth.   I suggest a quick re-read of the FPSR  

[noumpere]

14 hours ago, UMP45 said:

Don't forget there is something else in the FPSR that says "illegally ALTERS the actions of a fielder....".

along with: OR does not slide in a direct line (followed by exceptions for sliding for sliding or running away from the play)

[LRZ]

6 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

I suggest a quick re-read of the FPSR

For those of us who don't work FED, can someone post the rule itself so we don't have to search the internet (or previous UE discussions)? TIA.

[Senor Azul]

2019 rule 8-4 ART. 2 . . . Any runner is out when he:

b. does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play, does not slide in a direct line between the bases; or

1. A runner may slide in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder.

2. Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal. (2-32-1, 2-32-2) Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. Diving over a fielder is illegal.

PENALTY: The runner is out. Interference is called and the ball is dead immediately. On a force-play slide with less than two outs, the runner is declared out, as well as the batter-runner. Runners shall return to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch. With two outs, the runner is declared out. The batter is credited with a fielder’s choice.

2-32 ART. 1 . . . A legal slide can be either feet first or head first. If a runner slides feet first, at least one leg and buttock shall be on the ground. If a runner slides, he must slide within reach of the base with either a hand or a foot. A runner may slide or run in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder (8-4-2b).

2-32 ART. 2 . . . A slide is illegal if:

a. the runner uses a rolling, cross-body or pop-up slide into the fielder, or

b. the runner’s raised leg is higher than the fielder’s knee when the fielder is in a standing position, or

c. except at home plate, the runner goes beyond the base and then makes contact with or alters the play of the fielder. At home plate, it is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the plate in a straight line (baseline extended), or

d. the runner slashes or kicks the fielder with either leg, or

e. the runner tries to injure the fielder, or

f. the runner, on a force play, does not slide on the ground and in a direct line between the two bases.

[Aging_Arbiter]

On 8/11/2021 at 2:52 PM, Senor Azul said:

or

 

[Guest Steve]

This is one of the cases in which the NFHS book phrases it badly.  What's the actual intent of the rule?

[Thunderheads]

19 minutes ago, Guest Steve said:

This is one of the cases in which the NFHS book phrases it badly.  What's the actual intent of the rule?

Safety.  Which is the primary reason behind many MANY NFHS rules ....

[Senor Azul]

From the 2016 BRD (section 350, p. 236):

Note 337:  The force play/slide rule went into effect in 1998. FED listed their rationale: “The rule is intended to ensure the safety of the fielder.” (1998 Case Book Comments on the Rules, 2-32-2f, p. 3)