"Shortstop" Throws Warm-Up Pitch

[noumpere]

I admit that:

1) since my retirement, I have not kept up with all the detailed interpretations / rules changes

2) I am way behind in my reading of RefMag

 

The September 2020 issue of RefMag contains an article on removing a pitcher, and discusses the old canard wherein a player other than the returning pitcher throws a warm up pitch.  The article contains these sentences: In [NCAA and OBR] codes there is an interpretation that the intent of a player is a factor. Thus a "harmless" throw by another player should be treated as such.

 

Is the author correct about that interp?  So, in all codes  the F6 who is just fooling around would not (by rule -- I recognize that it might be managed differently at some levels) be required to pitch?

[Vegas_Ump]

I do Little League, and I have ruled on this only once in 34 years.

Between innings, F6 comes over and does a full windup warmup pitch from the rubber to a configured catcher. I announced the pitching change to the other team.  DM said he was NOT changing pitchers;  I said, "Oh yes you are!"  The other pitcher's record was complete, and there was now a new pitcher.

I pointed out that the fielder had done everything consistent with a real warmup--it didn't look like horsing around to me.  I told the manager that this guy has to disposition one batter, and then he could put in a reliever if he wanted to.

Little League rules state "One warmup pitch constitutes a pitching change."

Mike 

Las Vegas

[stevis]

47 minutes ago, Vegas_Ump said:

I do Little League, and I have ruled on this only once in 34 years.

Between innings, F6 comes over and does a full windup warmup pitch from the rubber to a configured catcher. I announced the pitching change to the other team.  DM said he was NOT changing pitchers;  I said, "Oh yes you are!"  The other pitcher's record was complete, and there was now a new pitcher.

I pointed out that the fielder had done everything consistent with a real warmup--it didn't look like horsing around to me.  I told the manager that this guy has to disposition one batter, and then he could put in a reliever if he wanted to.

Little League rules state "One warmup pitch constitutes a pitching change."

Mike 

Las Vegas

That's always the way I've been taught in LL; with the tag of "for the love of Klem, don't let the horsing around take place so you don't have to pick up that end of the stick."  As you describe it, I'd have been in the same spot as you.

[BT_Blue]

3 hours ago, Vegas_Ump said:

I told the manager that this guy has to disposition one batter, and then he could put in a reliever if he wanted to.

Please tell me you actually used the word "disposition" in this conversation! Lol

[ArchAngel72]

22 hours ago, Vegas_Ump said:

I do Little League, and I have ruled on this only once in 34 years.

Between innings, F6 comes over and does a full windup warmup pitch from the rubber to a configured catcher. I announced the pitching change to the other team.  DM said he was NOT changing pitchers;  I said, "Oh yes you are!"  The other pitcher's record was complete, and there was now a new pitcher.

I pointed out that the fielder had done everything consistent with a real warmup--it didn't look like horsing around to me.  I told the manager that this guy has to disposition one batter, and then he could put in a reliever if he wanted to.

Little League rules state "One warmup pitch constitutes a pitching change."

Mike 

Las Vegas

+1  had a similar issue However it was a scorcher of a day and I had turned my back to get my water bottle. The coach on the batting team started to make a stink and I said sorry coach I was getting a water and had my back turned I did not see it.  So I cannot call it.  If it happens and I see it I would have called it that way.

 

[Mudisfun]

I've stopped it before it happened, not so much by being over officious, but just seeing the body language of the player. Just asked... are you the pitcher, and then the player sheepishly said no. Took a moment to explain to the coach the rule (Minor B (8-9 YO players) so that he understood and could educate his players later.

However, if he had actually made the pitch, I would have enforced the rule. If you don't, then the other door is open to a protest as this is an actual LL rule issue.

[Lou B]

Dumbest rule in the LL Rulebook and that's saying a lot!

But, as you say, it's a rule so if it happens enforce it.  So far, I haven't seen it.

[Jimurray]

46 minutes ago, Lou B said:

Dumbest rule in the LL Rulebook and that's saying a lot!

But, as you say, it's a rule so if it happens enforce it.  So far, I haven't seen it.

You realize that it’s also in the OBR rule book, although a throw is not required in that rule book. But if @noumpere has referenced a true interp then it could be applied to the LLGB as it is derived from OBR. 

[noumpere]

10 hours ago, Jimurray said:

You realize that it’s also in the OBR rule book, although a throw is not required in that rule book. But if @noumpere has referenced a true interp then it could be applied to the LLGB as it is derived from OBR. 

Which gets me back to my question -- can anyone reference such an interp?  I know what the rule was -- I am asking if it still is.  I am not asking for examples of where you called it in your LL game.

[Jimurray]

39 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Which gets me back to my question -- can anyone reference such an interp?  I know what the rule was -- I am asking if it still is.  I am not asking for examples of where you called it in your LL game.

I never heard of the interp. 

[BT_Blue]

17 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I never heard of the interp. 

This probably then falls into the categories of either "this is something I heard once and was told how to handle this...I think." Or "since it isnt in the LL Green Book (or what ever book has the rules in it... im not totally versed in LL), then we revert to OBR and rule accordingly."

[Senor Azul]

Yes, Mr. noumpere, the author of the article was correct—there is an interpretation. It can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 388, pp. 259-260):

Play 249-388:  Smith, the game pitcher, is on third when the half-inning ends. He heads for his first-base dugout. Meanwhile, his teammates hustle onto the diamond. The game catcher, Jones, is standing at the plate. The first baseman goes to the mound to throw some pitches to warm up the catcher while he’s waiting for Smith. Now Smith crosses the foul line and goes to the rubber…

Ruling:  See NCAA Official Interpretation. See OBR Official Interpretation:

NCAA Official Interpretation:  Paronto:  The first baseman is not the new pitcher. No substitution has been announced by the defensive team. The continuing pitcher has 90-seconds to complete his warm-ups and get the new half-inning started. The pitcher of record is still Smith, and the first baseman will return to his position to warm up the infielders within the amount of time that is remaining.

OBR Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  I would say that it depends on the judgment of the umpire as to the intentions of the first baseman/warm-up pitcher. For your situation, specifically, I would say the first baseman has not entered the game as the new pitcher. Smith is still the pitcher, and since he has now crossed the foul line, he must pitch to the first batter.