If this doesn't worry you...then nothing will

[lawump]

We have a local Louisiana state judge (who has to stand for election every six years) ruling that a local Louisiana state resident (who is a New Orleans Saints fan and season ticket holder) has the right to conduct discovery...including forcing the commissioner and three game officials to have to sit for depositions.  That's right, a pissed-off Saints fan is suing alleging fraud because he's upset about the "no call" at the end of the NFC Championship game, and a local state judge doesn't have the balls to throw this frivolous lawsuit out because I'm sure the judge doesn't want to piss off the local electorate...especially when the other parties are an out-of-state multi-billion dollar enterprise and some referees.

Just wait to you make a call against Little Johnny or Little Susie in a state championship and mom and dad think you cost their dear child a college scholarship.  

This is why: (1) we have federal courts (notice that a similar federal lawsuit was dismissed previously); (2) why popularly elected judges are a bad thing; (3) why you should never officiate without liability insurance coverage.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/29/Roger-Goodell-three-officials-NFC-title-no-call-rams-saints

[LRZ]

How does a fan have standing?

[noumpere]

15 minutes ago, LRZ said:

How does a fan have standing?

All the seats were sold out?

[Umpire in Chief]

Wow 

[lawump]

19 minutes ago, LRZ said:

How does a fan have standing?

One wonders.  That's what the NFL successfully argued in the dismissed federal lawsuit (at least as I understand it from reading news accounts.  I have not read any actual pleadings.)

[LRZ]

In 1986, I clerked for a local judge who was assigned a suit filed by parents unhappy about some school sport decision. He granted summary judgment and dismissed the case, noting courts are not the proper place to decide such disputes. Although one of the two smartest judges I've ever known, he was apparently wrong. WTF?

[The Man in Blue]

Unfortunately, given the state of sports, both professional and amateur, fraud allegations can be very serious.  I haven’t read the article yet, but I suspect that is is his claim.  Not that he is a disgruntled fan (though he probably is), but that the game was presented as a fair contest and there was a conspiracy to rig that.  Gambling is fun.

I could be wrong.

[dumbdumb]

On 7/30/2019 at 2:44 PM, lawump said:

We have a local Louisiana state judge (who has to stand for election every six years) ruling that a local Louisiana state resident (who is a New Orleans Saints fan and season ticket holder) has the right to conduct discovery...including forcing the commissioner and three game officials to have to sit for depositions.  That's right, a pissed-off Saints fan is suing alleging fraud because he's upset about the "no call" at the end of the NFC Championship game, and a local state judge doesn't have the balls to throw this frivolous lawsuit out because I'm sure the judge doesn't want to piss off the local electorate...especially when the other parties are an out-of-state multi-billion dollar enterprise and some referees.

Just wait to you make a call against Little Johnny or Little Susie in a state championship and mom and dad think you cost their dear child a college scholarship.  

This is why: (1) we have federal courts (notice that a similar federal lawsuit was dismissed previously); (2) why popularly elected judges are a bad thing; (3) why you should never officiate without liability insurance coverage.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/07/29/Roger-Goodell-three-officials-NFC-title-no-call-rams-saints

Judge Susie in the Federal Courts just showed some brass ones by tossing the third and last Fed lawsuit in the Fed  Court.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/7/30/20747585/nfl-nfc-championship-missed-call-lawsuit-saints-rams-roger-goodell 

 

[lawump]

3 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

Judge Susie in the Federal Courts just showed some brass ones by tossing the third and last Fed lawsuit in the Fed  Court.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/7/30/20747585/nfl-nfc-championship-missed-call-lawsuit-saints-rams-roger-goodell 

 

And, yet, the asinine state court lawsuit continues.

[LRZ]

If I were an NFL lawyer, I'd consider filing a motion to remove the lawsuit from state to federal court.

[Umpire in Chief]

My question to my lawyer friends is..

My assumption may be wrong, but in order to file such a suit wouldn't the plaintiff have to show measurable damages? What is he claiming he lost by the Saints losing?

[wolfe_man]

2 hours ago, Umpire in Chief said:

My question to my lawyer friends is..

My assumption may be wrong, but in order to file such a suit wouldn't the plaintiff have to show measurable damages? What is he claiming he lost by the Saints losing?

I think it was loss of IQ - and for proof he can submit his lawsuit as Article 1.

[yawetag]

2 hours ago, LRZ said:

If I were an NFL lawyer, I'd consider filing a motion to remove the lawsuit from state to federal court.

The article states the lawsuit was specifically crafted to keep it out of federal court, primarily on the amount in damages sought.

[LRZ]

I thought for federal jurisdiction, the amount in question must be at least $75K, the amount the plaintiff is seeking; apparently, I was wrong--that is the maximum to avoid federal court.

Warren, your question goes, I think, to the issue of standing: generally, to bring a lawsuit, you must demonstrate that you suffered harm or injury. I don't see how a spectator/ticket holder could meet this standard, but Louisiana law may have some quirky twists. 

FWIW, I have always been amused by lawsuits where liability and injury are proved, but the damages are found to be minimal, and the jury or judge awards $1.

[Umpire in Chief]

Also doesn't LA use the old French basis for its state law? I seem to remember something about that from school. 

 

[Kevin_K]

2 hours ago, Umpire in Chief said:

Also doesn't LA use the old French basis for its state law? I seem to remember something about that from school. 

 

They are the only state in the union that is not based on English common law. Their system is based on a version Napoleonic law which is one that gives greater latitude to judges in interpreting law rather than the precedent based system of the rest of the country.

[The Man in Blue]

On 8/1/2019 at 1:51 PM, Umpire in Chief said:

Also doesn't LA use the old French basis for its state law? I seem to remember something about that from school. 

 

Are you kidding me?!

[dumbdumb]

5 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Are you kidding me?!

When did we go from baseball player complaint lines to the umpires, to tennis player complaint lines to umpires.

[The Man in Blue]

Deep cut to the ejection forum ... 

[beerguy55]

This lawsuit alleges fraud, right?

Weren't the others more about negligence, and the ticket holder's right to competent officiating blah blah blah?

If he's alleging fraud (and, by extension, a conspiracy to act in favor of the Rams) then what's the procedure?   I thought he would have to supply some kind of evidence or probable cause or preliminary hearing stuff before being able to depose witnesses.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 12:06 PM, LRZ said:

generally, to bring a lawsuit, you must demonstrate that you suffered harm or injury. I don't see how a spectator/ticket holder could meet this standard

As far as demonstrating injury - depends.  If you can demonstrate the fix was in then anyone watching the game has been injured - they did not get what they paid for.  Anyone who bet on the Saints was injured.  Anyone who bet on the Rams to win the Super Bowl after this game was injured...severely. 

I once saw an interesting case where someone faked his way into winning a bingo game - it was a not-for-profit setup where the proceeds went to whatever organization was hosting - could be a baseball team, or a charity, or a school, whatever - without going into too much detail he cut numbers out of other cards to make a winning card to win a game - something like $1000.  After doing it a few times he got caught.   But who did he defraud?  Not the Bingo Hall.  And not the charity running the event.  That $1000 was going to be paid out to somebody.  He defrauded the other players...but how do you measure it?  If there were 100 people in the hall they each had a 1% chance of winning - assuming they had the same number of cards.  He didn't defraud them each out of $1000.  He defrauded each of them of their chance at $1000.    He defrauded them of an expectation that they bought into a fair game.  And that's the extent to which they were injured.

I suppose that's the case here with the Saints game...but, he has to prove the fraud. 

 

[LRZ]

A bettor would have standing. Monetary loss = harm or injury. Just watching a rigged contest would not, in my lawyerly opinion. Arguably, non-betting spectators got what they paid for--entertainment.

[The Man in Blue]

10 hours ago, LRZ said:

A bettor would have standing. Monetary loss = harm or injury. Just watching a rigged contest would not, in my lawyerly opinion. Arguably, non-betting spectators got what they paid for--entertainment.

Ehhh ... if that were entirely true, WWE would still consider themselves a professional sport.  There is a reason they classify themselves as “entertainment” and not as “sport”.  If I paid to see a sporting event and it was fixed, it is not a sporting event. I may have gotten entertainment out of it, but I didn’t get the fair contest I paid to see.

 

... and I need to quit betting in the Washington Generals.