Hit by illegal pitch

[Guest KDD]

What is the rule for an 11U baseball player that is hit by an illegal pitch?  The player is hit in the head by a "quick pitch" while the Umpire had called timeout for player to get ready to hit (umpire had hand up for time).  

[grayhawk]

13 minutes ago, Guest KDD said:

What is the rule for an 11U baseball player that is hit by an illegal pitch?  The player is hit in the head by a "quick pitch" while the Umpire had called timeout for player to get ready to hit (umpire had hand up for time).  

No pitch and bad luck for the batter.  Hopefully, then umpire did everything he could have to prevent the pitcher from delivering, but it's an 11 year old kid and sometimes they're in their own world.

[Senor Azul]

If the umpire had already called time then everything that happened after that is nullified. But if there had been no timeout called, then in games played under Official Baseball Rules (OBR) and games played under NCAA rules (2019 rule 9-1d) the ball is delayed dead on an illegal pitch so the batter would be awarded first base on a HBP. Here’s the rule—

2019 OBR rule 6.02(b) Illegal Pitches With Bases Unoccupied If the pitcher makes an illegal pitch with the bases unoccupied, it shall be called a ball unless the batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.

Mr. grayhawk would be correct in games played under NFHS (FED) rules—it is an immediate dead ball if the pitcher delivers an illegal pitch (see rule 5-1-1k). The penalty would be found following rule 6-1-3 (if there is no runner) which is a ball awarded to the batter.

 

[Vegas_Ump]

The ball was Not in play according to the OP because the PU had the "stop sign" up.

The pitcher delivered anyway--against the direction of the umpire.  The fact that he hit the batter suggests to me (without any other data) that something dangerous--if not nefarious--took place. 

Agree that the batter does not get first, but I'd eject the pitcher for dangerous play.

Now before all the "material" hits the fan, let me ask: Did the pitcher have a tendency to work fast?  I do see that in the younger levels.  A warning long prior to this incident might have been in order.  If this was an out of the blue quick pitch, bango!  He's gone!  But if he's been working too fast, I would have warned him early in the game.  Might have prevented the incident in the first place.

Mike 

Las Vegas

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Ump said:

The ball was Not in play according to the OP because the PU had the "stop sign" up.

The pitcher delivered anyway--against the direction of the umpire.  The fact that he hit the batter suggests to me (without any other data) that something dangerous--if not nefarious--took place. 

Agree that the batter does not get first, but I'd eject the pitcher for dangerous play.

Now before all the "material" hits the fan, let me ask: Did the pitcher have a tendency to work fast?  I do see that in the younger levels.  A warning long prior to this incident might have been in order.  If this was an out of the blue quick pitch, bango!  He's gone!  But if he's been working too fast, I would have warned him early in the game.  Might have prevented the incident in the first place.

Mike 

Las Vegas

11U game.  Stuff happens.  Don't assume nefarious when just being 11 will explain it.

 

[Jimurray]

3 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

11U game.  Stuff happens.  Don't assume nefarious when just being 11 will explain it.

 

Off topic: Is that counted in the pitch count in Little League?

[RBIbaseball]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

Off topic: Is that counted in the pitch count in Little League?

Yes.

LL Baseball 8.05 - PENALTY FOR AN ILLEGAL PITCH: Little League (Major)/ Minor League: The ball is dead and no runners will advance. The pitch shall be called a ball even if the pitch is not actually thrown... When an illegal pitch is called, regardless of whether the pitch is completed or not by the pitcher, a pitch will always be charged to the pitcher’s pitch count.

There are some lines in between that address the play being allowed to continue as a delayed dead ball.

 

 

[Senor Azul]

And it is also answered in Rule 2.00 Definition of Terms--

2019 LL rule 2.00 A PITCH is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher [BASEBALL: Little League/Minor League Exception: For the purpose of maintaining a pitch count, an illegal pitch shall count as one pitch; even if a pitch is not actually thrown]

And this text follows what Mr. RBIbaseball posted about an illegal pitch--

When a balk is called, if the pitch is delivered, a pitch shall be charged against the pitch count regardless of whether the batter put the pitch into play. However, on a balk that is called on a pickoff attempt or in an instance that the pitcher does not deliver the pitch, no pitch shall be charged to the pitch count.

[Jimurray]

21 minutes ago, RBIbaseball said:

Yes.

LL Baseball 8.05 - PENALTY FOR AN ILLEGAL PITCH: Little League (Major)/ Minor League: The ball is dead and no runners will advance. The pitch shall be called a ball even if the pitch is not actually thrown... When an illegal pitch is called, regardless of whether the pitch is completed or not by the pitcher, a pitch will always be charged to the pitcher’s pitch count.

There are some lines in between that address the play being allowed to continue as a delayed dead ball.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

And it is also answered in Rule 2.00 Definition of Terms--

2019 LL rule 2.00 A PITCH is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher [BASEBALL: Little League/Minor League Exception: For the purpose of maintaining a pitch count, an illegal pitch shall count as one pitch; even if a pitch is not actually thrown]

And this text follows what Mr. RBIbaseball posted about an illegal pitch--

When a balk is called, if the pitch is delivered, a pitch shall be charged against the pitch count regardless of whether the batter put the pitch into play. However, on a balk that is called on a pickoff attempt or in an instance that the pitcher does not deliver the pitch, no pitch shall be charged to the pitch count.

But in the OP an Illegal Pitch was not called. So was it a ball delivered to the batter? 

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Off topic: Is that counted in the pitch count in Little League?

Yes.

 

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

 

But in the OP an Illegal Pitch was not called. So was it a ball delivered to the batter? 

Duh!

[Jimurray]

16 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Duh!

So doesn’t it have to be called a ball or a strike?

[Tborze]

10 hours ago, Jimurray said:

 

But in the OP an Illegal Pitch was not called. So was it a ball delivered to the batter? 

 

9 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Yes.

 

 

9 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Duh!

 

9 hours ago, Jimurray said:

So doesn’t it have to be called a ball or a strike?

The ball was dead. The pitch never happened. 

[Thunderheads]

10 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Duh!

Rich, you're typically very informative, but sometimes you act like a dick.  I don't get it.  

[Jimurray]

45 minutes ago, Tborze said:

 

 

 

The ball was dead. The pitch never happened. 

It happened for a LL pitch counter. 

[ArchAngel72]

Had this happen to me. Batter is barely getting his second foot in the box pitcher already started his windup I stepped out and called "no pitch,raising my arms TIME" he delivered a strike to the batter, no swing. Def coach is like what was that.  I told him its called a quick pitch and its illegal thus "No pitch"   

 

Current 2019 LL rules states

8.05

Note 2.  A batter hit by a pitch shall be awarded 1st base without reference to the illegal pitch.

 

 

If time was called, sucks he stays there and its a ball. But if it was just called an illegal pitch he gets 1st.

 

 

[ArchAngel72]

12 hours ago, Jimurray said:

 

But in the OP an Illegal Pitch was not called. So was it a ball delivered to the batter? 

I just went back and re-read the OP.

 

The way I understand it the umpire is holding a hand up calling time waiting for the batter to get it the box?   The pitcher tosses a pitch during time being called and hits the batter.

Um.. If that were me I would eject the pitcher.

Willfully disregarded the umpires instructions and threw a ball at a player, hitting him in the head.

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

Rich, you're typically very informative, but sometimes you act like a dick.  I don't get it.  

He quoted the rule: 2019 LL rule 2.00 "A PITCH is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher"

Then he immediately asked:  "was it a ball delivered to the batter?"

What reaction did you expect?

Yes it was. The ball was delivered. It counts as a pitch for the pitch counter.    

[Rich Ives]

21 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

I just went back and re-read the OP.

 

The way I understand it the umpire is holding a hand up calling time waiting for the batter to get it the box?   The pitcher tosses a pitch during time being called and hits the batter.

Um.. If that were me I would eject the pitcher.

Willfully disregarded the umpires instructions and threw a ball at a player, hitting him in the head.

He was 11. They don't always pay as much attention as one would like.  Coached that age level for 32 years. Not clueless.

[Thunderheads]

3 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

He quoted the rule: 2019 LL rule 2.00 "A PITCH is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher"

Then he asked:  "was it a ball delivered to the batter?"

What reaction did you expect?

Yes it was. The ball was delivered. It counts as a pitch for the pitch counter.    

What reaction did I expect, .........from you?  I got it .....

[Rich Ives]

41 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

What reaction did I expect, .........from you?  I got it .....

Posts rule: "School buses have to be painted yellow."

Asks Question: "Is that school bus yellow?"

Get it now?

[Tborze]

48 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

I just went back and re-read the OP.

 

The way I understand it the umpire is holding a hand up calling time waiting for the batter to get it the box?   

I read it the same way. A pitch is a ball delivered to a batter. How is it a pitch if there is no batter?

Do warm up pitches count in LL?

 

37 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

He quoted the rule: 2019 LL rule 2.00 "A PITCH is a ball delivered to the batter by the pitcher"

Then he immediately asked:  "was it a ball delivered to the batter?"

Yes it was. The ball was delivered. It counts as a pitch for the pitch counter.    

 

1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Had this happen to me. Batter is barely getting his second foot in the box pitcher already started his windup I stepped out and called "no pitch,raising my arms TIME" he delivered a strike to the batter, no swing. Def coach is like what was that.  I told him its called a quick pitch and its illegal thus "No pitch"   

 

Current 2019 LL rules states

8.05

Note 2.  A batter hit by a pitch shall be awarded 1st base without reference to the illegal pitch.

 

 

If time was called, sucks he stays there and its a ball. But if it was just called an illegal pitch he gets 1st.

 

 

I'm confused here. In your sitch, you say the pitch was illegal, thus no pitch.  Then state, "If time was called, sucks he stays there and its a ball".  

13 hours ago, Jimurray said:

 

But in the OP an Illegal Pitch was not called. So was it a ball delivered to the batter? 

Did the OP mention what was called?  

20 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

If the umpire had already called time then everything that happened after that is nullified.

 

 

[Thunderheads]

59 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Posts rule: "School buses have to be painted yellow."

Asks Question: "Is that school bus yellow?"

Get it now?

I never 'didn't' get it ........  it's called tact, and delivery .........  never mind

[ArchAngel72]

2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

He was 11. They don't always pay as much attention as one would like.  Coached that age level for 32 years. Not clueless.

 

Yep I get it 11,  Bet he and his team mates and the other team would learn a valuable lesson that day.

 

I can't tell you how many times I have had to woah up a pitcher because he's too anxious in throwing his next pitch. I get it, I did it too when I was 1st pitching in LL  I worked VERY fast and coaches and umpires made me slow down a little.

Point is inadvertently or not he threw a ball and it hit a kid in the head when TIME was being called for, sorry not sorry that's a bit of a safety concern for me as the umpire. I will penalize him for his "not paying attention" .

Least this is how I am understanding it on my 2nd reading of the OP

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, Tborze said:

I read it the same way. A pitch is a ball delivered to a batter. How is it a pitch if there is no batter?

Sorry explain this more You have me confused on what your asking for a question.

 

1 hour ago, Tborze said:

I'm confused here. In your sitch, you say the pitch was illegal, thus no pitch.  Then state, "If time was called, sucks he stays there and its a ball".  

 

Did the OP mention what was called?  

 

Quote

What is the rule for an 11U baseball player that is hit by an illegal pitch?  The player is hit in the head by a "quick pitch" while the Umpire had called timeout for player to get ready to hit (umpire had hand up for time).  

The Op is quoted Umpire had asked for time for player to get ready to hit.  I assume he/she is stepping in the box and holding their hand up asking for time.   The pitcher throws a pitch while time is called.  The ball is there fore dead still and its not an actual pitch  at least to me..   

If time had not been called and it was a quick pitch then its a No pitch or illegal pitch and the batter is awards 1st.  but time is out..  I would not classify it as a pitch.  I would eject the pitcher for throwing and hitting the batter during time.

my 2 cents anyway, but to me its far easier to try and wade thru the things going on reading it on a board more than at the actual game.

 

[Vegas_Ump]

Hey!  The ball was NOT in play!  Nothing can happen.  A pitch cannot be delivered, nor can it count for pitch count rules.

So this can't be an "illegal pitch".  

But it was damn dangerous!  An umpire who does nothing (ejection or at least a warning) needs some churching' up!

Mike

Las Vegas