FPSR - NCAA, FED, OBR

[johnnyg08]

Let's move past the fact that this is a still photo. 

Let's also assume that this is a double play ball. 

What else (if anything) would we need to see in order to call FPSR on this play under the three main rule sets?

Also, I have no idea if anything was called on this play. I saw the photo online and I brought it here for us to discuss. Let the discussing begin. :-) 

 

[maven]

29 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

What else (if anything) would we need to see in order to call FPSR on this play under the three main rule sets?

FED: nothing (that is, I'd need nothing else, given your assumptions).

NCAA: no comment.

OBR: has no FPSR.

A different parlor game: what would have to be true in order for this NOT to be a FPSR violation?

[Thunderheads]

I basically only do FED, so ........ 

I don't need anything else, that's FPSR

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, johnnyg08 said:

What else (if anything) would we need to see in order to call FPSR on this play under the three main rule sets?

An umpire with enough rules knowledge, vision, and guts to make the call.

[Forest Ump]

Stepping on soap box...........FED and NCAA are identical rules with two exceptions. In NCAA a player is allowed to pop up and over slide the base. I always tell umpires that if you want to understand the FPSR, read the rule in the NCAA rule book. It's in section 8-4. It's well written and has a diagram. The FED rule is badly written and it requires you to read two sections to interpret the rule. .......Stepping down now.

[scrounge]

I don't know enough from just a still to say if it's FED FPSR or not. Did the fielder just get the ball in front of the bag, giving the runner no opportunity to do anything? Then nothing, the contact is n front of the bag, the runner didn't interfere. Or did the runner have ample opportunity to slide or veer off but chose to actively come into the fielder like this? Then absolutely FPSR. If egregious, we'll move on to MC as well.

[Senor Azul]

Something else to be considered--the runner in the photo came in standing up and made contact above the waist of the defender which means he is liable to malicious contact being called.

2017-18 NCAA rule 8-7a Collision Rule

The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.

2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder:  contact above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches the base (plate), the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the collision.

2014 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations POE

Contact or a collision is considered to be malicious if:

The contact is the result of intentional excessive force;

The contact occurs close to the bag or home plate or above the waist of the receiving player; or

There was intent to injure.

Malicious contact can occur without these conditions if determined by the umpire, but these provide a starting point.

[ilyazhito]

This is not a bona fide slide, per OBR, so this play would be illegal in any rule set. The runner (and batter) are out. 

[Jimurray]

49 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

This is not a bona fide slide, per OBR, so this play would be illegal in any rule set. The runner (and batter) are out. 

I don't think a runner has to slide in OBR. If HE makes contact with the fielder it has to happen with a bona fide slide. If that runner was retired previous interps allow him to continue to run the bases normally and now especially since they have replay. This fielder might have violated another clause in the OBR rule: "In addition, interference shall not be called where a runner’s
contact with the fielder was caused by the fielder being positioned in (or moving into) the runner’s legal pathway to the base." 

[Replacematt]

On 3/21/2019 at 9:58 PM, Senor Azul said:

Something else to be considered--the runner in the photo came in standing up and made contact above the waist of the defender which means he is liable to malicious contact being called.

2017-18 NCAA rule 8-7a Collision Rule

The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.

2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder:  contact above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches the base (plate), the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the collision.

2014 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations POE

Contact or a collision is considered to be malicious if:

The contact is the result of intentional excessive force;

The contact occurs close to the bag or home plate or above the waist of the receiving player; or

There was intent to injure.

Malicious contact can occur without these conditions if determined by the umpire, but these provide a starting point.

I don't think contact was above the waist.

[Replacematt]

Just from the pic, I have nothing in all three.

My question is since the defense is obviously not at their home field, why are they in white?

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Just from the pic, I have nothing in all three.

My question is since the defense is obviously not at their home field, why are they in white?

Neutral site game?

Starting pitcher's preference?

[johnnyg08]

1 minute ago, noumpere said:

Neutral site game?

Yes

[udbrky]

My one concern is that it looks like the MI may have moved in a way to draw the contact/INT.

[johnnyg08]

I did some more homework on this play and learned that this play did not result in any rules infractions called on the field. 

[Senor Azul]

Mr. johnnyg08, would you please just tell us everything you know about this photo. Was it from a college game or high school game? Which teams? Where was it played? 

[Rich Ives]

20 hours ago, Matt said:

Just from the pic, I have nothing in all three.

My question is since the defense is obviously not at their home field, why are they in white?

Your question makes no sense. Both teams are on defense half the time.

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

Your question makes no sense. Both teams are on defense half the time.

Only one is on defense in the pic, though.

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Your question makes no sense. Both teams are on defense half the time.

Matt recognizes the team logo on the defense, and knows what their home field looks like -- and this isn't it.

[Rich Ives]

21 hours ago, Matt said:

Only one is on defense in the pic, though.

Of course.  It's their half of the time.

[Rich Ives]

19 hours ago, noumpere said:

Matt recognizes the team logo on the defense, and knows what their home field looks like -- and this isn't it.

And the rest of us would know that how?

[johnnyg08]

I'm trying to figure out why it ever matters? Where we live, no team is playing outside. They are all down in Florida, Arizona, Missouri, etc...

[Replacematt]

 I should have known that a tongue-in-cheek question was going to result in something like this.