Run scored on double play

[Guest CoachBill]

1 out, bases loaded and the batter hits a ground ball to the shortstop, who tags the runner going from 2nd to 3rd (2nd out);

the runner from first gets in a rundown as the batter-runner reaches 1st base. The runner scores from 3rd base before the

runner between 1st and 2nd is tagged out. Since the runner was not put out by touching the 2nd base bag (being forced out),

isn't this a timing play due to the tag putting out the runner?

 

Thanks

[CJK]

No, it's not a time play..  The 3rd out in your example is recorded on a forced runner, regardless of how it was finally recorded (tagging runner or tagging base).  The run does not score if the third out is recorded on a forced runner.

[udbrky]

Why wouldn't they just touch 2B?

 

If R1 did not acquire 2B, it's a force out. No runs score.

[maven]

14 minutes ago, udbrky said:

If R1 did not acquire 2B, it's a force out. No runs score.

Even if he did, it could still be a force out...just sayin'!

Agree with the answers posted.

[udbrky]

19 minutes ago, maven said:

Even if he did, it could still be a force out...just sayin'!

Agree with the answers posted.

Yes. I'm just trying to picture this play and I can't even.

[beerguy55]

31 minutes ago, udbrky said:

Yes. I'm just trying to picture this play and I can't even.

U10 it's pretty easy to imagine...or any level with inexperienced players - coaches are probably screaming to touch the base...or, even they don't realize what's going on.

Even seen a team put a runner in a rundown between home plate and the dugout.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Guest CoachBill said:

Since the runner was not put out by touching the 2nd base bag (being forced out),

isn't this a timing play due to the tag putting out the runner?

The situation defines the force out, not the method of the put out.  The batter becoming a runner forces R1 to advance to second base.  The runner is "forced". If that runner is put out before reaching their forced base, in any method, and it is the third out, the run can't score.

[udbrky]

I've seen a few goals scored on their own basket, or go over and back trying, but no rundowns between the plate and dugout

[umpstu]

52 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

U10 it's pretty easy to imagine...or any level with inexperienced players - coaches are probably screaming to touch the base...or, even they don't realize what's going on.

Even seen a team put a runner in a rundown between home plate and the dugout.

Exactly.  I've seen college teams turn a double play with two outs.  Seen a 3rd baseman catch a foul ball against the fence with two outs and turn around and fire a great throw to home plate, leaving everybody else on the field wondering if we got the outs wrong and there was actually one out. 

 

I've been umpiring 24 years now and today had a first.  Batter fouls off a pitch which lands about one foot behind home plate spinning in the dirt for about ten seconds.  Seriously, this happened.  Catcher wouldn't pick it up because the batter stayed in the box and the catcher wanted to see of the ball would possibly go fair.  Oh, the pitch was a change up and it split the bat in half from the top of the bat to about the midpoint of the bat.  Cracked down the middle.  Crazy.

[noumpere]

4 hours ago, Guest CoachBill said:

 Since the runner was not put out by touching the 2nd base bag (being forced out),

isn't this a timing play due to the tag putting out the runner?

 

"touching the base" and "being forced out" are not synonyms.  You can have either without the other.

[maven]

8 hours ago, udbrky said:

Yes. I'm just trying to picture this play and I can't even.

If R1 runs to 2B, acquires it (touches it), then retreats toward 1B (for whatever reason), then the force is reinstated. If R1 is retired before re-acquiring 2B, it will be a force out.

This sort of thing happens more commonly with retouch and missed base appeals, where an R1 retreats to go retouch 1B and reinstates the force play at 2B.

My stupid quibble won't advance the OP's understanding at all; just picking at your mostly correct but slightly misleading statement that if R1 acquires 2B, then the force is off.

[udbrky]

11 minutes ago, maven said:

If R1 runs to 2B, acquires it (touches it), then retreats toward 1B (for whatever reason), then the force is reinstated. If R1 is retired before re-acquiring 2B, it will be a force out.

This sort of thing happens more commonly with retouch and missed base appeals, where an R1 retreats to go retouch 1B and reinstates the force play at 2B.

My stupid quibble won't advance the OP's understanding at all; just picking at your mostly correct but slightly misleading statement that if R1 acquires 2B, then the force is off.

Yes, I implied that he stayed there. I get what you're cooking, I'm pretty sure it didn't go down that way though. 

[WilsonFlyer]

I've seen this done appearing to be on purpose by offenses betting on the fact that they will find an inexperienced umpire that will allow run to count.