No abandonment before touching first base

[beerguy55]

I've read here a few times that abandonment can't be called before a BR reaches first base.

If BR hits a ball and thinks it is caught, and hustles back to the dugout, is he out when he reaches DBT?  And if so, I'm assuming it's not called abandonment, but something else?

 

Also - if batter gets strike two, but believes it's strike three, and hustles back to the dugout and sits on the bench before he can hear anyone, can he resume his at bat?

[Rich Ives]

11 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

I've read here a few times that abandonment can't be called before a BR reaches first base.

If BR hits a ball and thinks it is caught, and hustles back to the dugout, is he out when he reaches DBT?  And if so, I'm assuming it's not called abandonment, but something else?

 

Also - if batter gets strike two, but believes it's strike three, and hustles back to the dugout and sits on the bench before he can hear anyone, can he resume his at bat?

a)  Defense is going to tag first so it doesn't really matter, but Roder developed a concept of desertion to treat it the same as abandonment. Haven't seen anything official on it.

 

b) Yes. AB hasn't been completed. Never became a runner so nothing to abandon/desert.

[maven]

3 minutes ago, Mike D said:

In the strike two case the batter could receive strike three for leaving the batters box, depending on the situation. Also, if the batter was not ready to receive the pitch after 20 seconds he could receive the third strike as a delay of game penalty
 

Any umpire who handled the situation that way would be taking a simple mistake by a player and turning it into a game killer. Proper game management requires putting the batter back in the box and resuming play.

If he refuses, then of course we can deal with that separately.

[Mike D]

I've read here a few times that abandonment can't be called before a BR reaches first base.
If BR hits a ball and thinks it is caught, and hustles back to the dugout, is he out when he reaches DBT?  And if so, I'm assuming it's not called abandonment, but something else?
 
Also - if batter gets strike two, but believes it's strike three, and hustles back to the dugout and sits on the bench before he can hear anyone, can he resume his at bat?

In the strike two case the batter could receive strike three for leaving the batters box, depending on the situation. Also, if the batter was not ready to receive the pitch after 20 seconds he could receive the third strike as a delay of game penalty

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[noumpere]

FED has several cases where if the delay is "accidental" (I forget the exact wording) there's no penalty.  That's the intent of the OBR rule as well.

 

this is one of those rules that's there if we need it, but because it's there, we don't need it.

[JSam21]

4 minutes ago, Mike D said:

We aren't in the coaching business. It is the responsibility of the player and the coach to be aware of the count and be alert in the game. After a 2nd strike I am going to signal and announce the count. If during or after that the batter is sitting on the bench and hasn't returned in the proper time I'm not going to the bench to beg him to finish his time at bat. Delay of game, strike three, he is out.

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All you have to do is say... "Need that batter." 20 count... Ring him up. You don't need to go to the dugout.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

a)  Defense is going to tag first so it doesn't really matter, but Roder developed a concept of desertion to treat it the same as abandonment. Haven't seen anything official on it.

The situation I'm envisioning is a play where the batter (and maybe even the defense) thinks the catch was made (like on a shorthop/line drive), the batter goes to the bench, and the defense starts making a play on another base runner.  Maybe even a rundown between second and third.   Am I correct to conclude that under current rules (at all levels?) that the BR could realize he isn't out, leave the dugout, and run to first base safely?  That entering DBT does not, on its own, make the BR out?

38 minutes ago, Mike D said:

We aren't in the coaching business. It is the responsibility of the player and the coach to be aware of the count and be alert in the game. After a 2nd strike I am going to signal and announce the count. If during or after that the batter is sitting on the bench and hasn't returned in the proper time I'm not going to the bench to beg him to finish his time at bat. Delay of game, strike three, he is out.

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The scenario I'm thinking of is the batter goes to the bench and simply gets into DBT before he hears everyone tell him it's only strike two...he hears, realizes his mistake, and immediately returns.  I think that is the most likely type of scenario to occur.

The scenario where everyone on the field actually thinks it was only strike two, to the point where the defense throws it around the horn and the next batter goes to the batter's box would be interesting.   

[Mudisfun]

If in scenario 1 the batter enters the dugout and does not get it when everyone is yelling at him? bang the out. If he is on his way and realizes what is happening? He makes his own base path so play on.

Scenario #2 - Batter comes right back after realizing the error? Nothing. If he goes to the dugout and comes right back? nothing as well... 

[HokieUmp]

On 3/13/2017 at 0:19 PM, Mike D said:

We aren't in the coaching business. It is the responsibility of the player and the coach to be aware of the count and be alert in the game. After a 2nd strike I am going to signal and announce the count. If during or after that the batter is sitting on the bench and hasn't returned in the proper time I'm not going to the bench to beg him to finish his time at bat. Delay of game, strike three, he is out.
 

Seriously?  I'm not in the coaching business, either, but all I do is say "Dude, it's only two" if I see that he's walking away thinking he's out.  Would it KILL you to do that?  Not begging, and it sure seems a lot easier than antagonizing a team.

(And yes, it's happened to me before.)

[Mike D]

Seriously?  I'm not in the coaching business, either, but all I do is say "Dude, it's only two" if I see that he's walking away thinking he's out.  Would it KILL you to do that?  Not begging, and it sure seems a lot easier than antagonizing a team.
(And yes, it's happened to me before.)

Seriously. If he's made it all the way to the dugout and is sitting there and hasn't responded to his coach, the team, and the fans telling him it was only 2 strikes, why should I delay the game further to walk to the dugout and ask him to return. We are there to call the game, not coach.

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[Catch18]

Any umpire who handled the situation that way would be taking a simple mistake by a player and turning it into a game killer. Proper game management requires putting the batter back in the box and resuming play.
If he refuses, then of course we can deal with that separately.

^^^^This. Also, here's an oldie, but a a goodie that should help: use the rules to get you out of trouble, not get you into trouble.


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[ElkOil]

3 hours ago, Mike D said:

Seriously. If he's made it all the way to the dugout and is sitting there and hasn't responded to his coach, the team, and the fans telling him it was only 2 strikes, why should I delay the game further to walk to the dugout and ask him to return. We are there to call the game, not coach.

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In what reality could you envision that happening?

[Mike D]

In what reality could you envision that happening?

None that I can think of...it was the OPs situation

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[ElkOil]

1 minute ago, Mike D said:

None that I can think of...it was the OPs situation

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I guess I read it differently than you did. In the OP, it seemed to me like the question addressed a simple mistake. I read your post to mean the player was more deliberate and making an effort to abandon his at-bat, despite the coach, fans, umpire and players all telling him to return to the plate. The former I have a hard enough time seeing happen, considering I'll be the first one to tell the batter that it's only two strikes. The latter, I can't ever see happening.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, Mike D said:

None that I can think of...it was the OPs situation

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Only if you choose to take the most extreme interpretation of the OP that fits your desire to be antagonistic towards players and coaches, AND ignore the subsequent response I made explaining what I meant.

 

And, btw, I've seen it happen at least half a dozen times, especially with kids who are taught to hustle back to the bench after striking out.

And, on at least two occasions, I've seen the batter AND the defense (proven by the catcher throwing down to third base) believe it was strike three.  It happens.

[Mike D]

Any umpire who handled the situation that way would be taking a simple mistake by a player and turning it into a game killer. Proper game management requires putting the batter back in the box and resuming play.
If he refuses, then of course we can deal with that separately.

We aren't in the coaching business. It is the responsibility of the player and the coach to be aware of the count and be alert in the game. After a 2nd strike I am going to signal and announce the count. If during or after that the batter is sitting on the bench and hasn't returned in the proper time I'm not going to the bench to beg him to finish his time at bat. Delay of game, strike three, he is out.

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