DUMB DAD

[Guest LJK]

Runner on first with big lead. Right handed pitcher steps back and throws to first base for pick off play. At that time runner moves towards second base instead of back to first base. Ball goes out of play. Is the runner awarded 1 or 2 bases? Second or third base?

[ricka56]

5 minutes ago, Guest LJK said:

Runner on first with big lead. Right handed pitcher steps back and throws to first base for pick off play. At that time runner moves towards second base instead of back to first base. Ball goes out of play. Is the runner awarded 1 or 2 bases? Second or third base?

When the pitcher steps back (disengages) from the rubber, he is treated like any other fielder than threw a ball out of play. Two bases from the time of the throw. R1 becomes R3.

Additionally, if he hadn't disengaged, it would be one base.

[Mad Mike]

Once the pitcher disengages the pitching plate, by stepping back, he is considered an infielder. The award is two bases from the base last legally occupied, which in your example is first. So, place the runner at third.

If the pitcher had not disengaged, and thrown over to first, then this would be a one base award.

[noumpere]

7 hours ago, Guest LJK said:

Runner on first with big lead. Right handed pitcher steps back and throws to first base for pick off play. At that time runner moves towards second base instead of back to first base. Ball goes out of play. Is the runner awarded 1 or 2 bases? Second or third base?

Meaning no disrespect to the OP, I am always amazed / amused by the extraneous information that is given on a play that has nothing to do with the ruling AND by the relevant information that is all-too-often left out.  Someone was recently discussing a potential running lane interference call and it was nearly impossible to get him to describe the runners feet in relation to the lane -- a critical piece of information.

[BretMan]

The fact that the runner's direction was mentioned might make you think that the poster- or whoever disagreed with him- thought that it was a key to making this call. It's such a common rule myth that, for two-base awards, a runner gets "1+1", or "the base he was going to plus one more", that I could see that being an issue. 

So maybe it seemed relevant to whoever was questioning this call, but it is totally irrelevant to the actual rule itself. It's still two bases, in the "forward" direction, regardless of which way the runner was heading. 

[Stk004]

9 hours ago, BretMan said:

The fact that the runner's direction was mentioned might make you think that the poster- or whoever disagreed with him- thought that it was a key to making this call. It's such a common rule myth that, for two-base awards, a runner gets "1+1", or "the base he was going to plus one more", that I could see that being an issue. 

So maybe it seemed relevant to whoever was questioning this call, but it is totally irrelevant to the actual rule itself. It's still two bases, in the "forward" direction, regardless of which way the runner was heading. 

As long as we're talking baseball, that is. 

[JHSump]

1 hour ago, Stk004 said:

As long as we're talking baseball, that is. 

In softball is it "1+1"??  Sorry. I don't do softball, so I don't know.  I'd be surprised to hear it's "1+1" in softball. But if that's the way it is, that's the way it is.

Or are you talking kickball or cricket?

[Stk004]

1 hour ago, JHSump said:

In softball is it "1+1"??  Sorry. I don't do softball, so I don't know.  I'd be surprised to hear it's "1+1" in softball. But if that's the way it is, that's the way it is.

Or are you talking kickball or cricket?

I don't know how to quote other threads on here but if you search USSSA you'll see a discussion on it in the 4th or 5th result. To answer your question yes it is. 

[JHSump]

1 hour ago, Stk004 said:

I don't know how to quote other threads on here but if you search USSSA you'll see a discussion on it in the 4th or 5th result. To answer your question yes it is. 

Wow! I did check out that discussion on the USSSA rule, and, I am surprised! But, that's the way it is!! Thanks for pointing that out!

I'm still surprised!

[Stk004]

4 minutes ago, JHSump said:

Wow! I did check out that discussion on the USSSA rule, and, I am surprised! But, that's the way it is!! Thanks for pointing that out!

I'm still surprised!

I was at my sister's 12U softball tourney today, and the PU had a USSSA hat on, so I asked him if they used the 1+1 rule, and sure enough he confirmed they do. 

The more you know. 

[RichMSN]

A quick check of the USSSA softball rules (available online) would show that there's no such thing as 1+1.  Most softball awards are based on the time of the throw.

[Stk004]

13 minutes ago, RichMSN said:

A quick check of the USSSA softball rules (available online) would show that there's no such thing as 1+1.  Most softball awards are based on the time of the throw.

Quoted from @JonnyCat

"Section 9D: "A base runner returning to a base to retag a base on a fly ball caught and thrown by a fielder to any base. If the ball is thrown by a fielder into the restricted area, the base runner shall be awarded the base he must retouch, plus one base. Since the base runner is required to regain the base he first occupied, he is awarded that base and only one more." (emphasis mine)"

[RichMSN]

6 hours ago, Stk004 said:

Quoted from @JonnyCat

"Section 9D: "A base runner returning to a base to retag a base on a fly ball caught and thrown by a fielder to any base. If the ball is thrown by a fielder into the restricted area, the base runner shall be awarded the base he must retouch, plus one base. Since the base runner is required to regain the base he first occupied, he is awarded that base and only one more." (emphasis mine)"

That's slow pitch.  That doesn't even qualify as a *game*.

[dookiexman]

Fastpitch softball is the same as baseball in this rule of two bases awarded for a throw out of play by a fielder. However, since the runner may not leave their base until the ball is released (or reaches the plate for younger ages), there is no pick off play where this would come into play.

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, RichMSN said:

That's slow pitch.  That doesn't even qualify as a *game*.

What if there is a keg at second base? That qualifies in my book.

[Rich Ives]

9 hours ago, Stk004 said:

Quoted from @JonnyCat

"Section 9D: "A base runner returning to a base to retag a base on a fly ball caught and thrown by a fielder to any base. If the ball is thrown by a fielder into the restricted area, the base runner shall be awarded the base he must retouch, plus one base. Since the base runner is required to regain the base he first occupied, he is awarded that base and only one more." (emphasis mine)"

The OP isn't about this play though. The runner is not in a retouch situation.

[Stk004]

1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

The OP isn't about this play though. The runner is not in a retouch situation.

 No but the thread devolved into a discussion of the "1+1" "rule" 

[RichMSN]

2 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

What if there is a keg at second base? That qualifies in my book.

That qualifies as a reason to play that travesty of a "game."

[BretMan]

14 hours ago, Stk004 said:

I was at my sister's 12U softball tourney today, and the PU had a USSSA hat on, so I asked him if they used the 1+1 rule, and sure enough he confirmed they do. 

The more you know. 

That applies ONLY in USSSA slow pitch and ONLY when a runner has left base before a caught fly ball and still must tag up when the ball becomes dead. The base that must still be retouched is the first base of the two-base award, then the next advanced base is the second.

[HokieUmp]

17 hours ago, JHSump said:

Or are you talking kickball or cricket?

Guarantee it's not cricket.  There are only two places (wickets) to go, and you only have to cross the line of the wicket to count the run (if both batsmen do it).  And grounding your bat on/past the line counts - it doesn't have to be part of the body.  Hand's part of the bat, and vice-versa.

[JHSump]

5 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

Guarantee it's not cricket.  There are only two places (wickets) to go, and you only have to cross the line of the wicket to count the run (if both batsmen do it).  And grounding your bat on/past the line counts - it doesn't have to be part of the body.  Hand's part of the bat, and vice-versa.

I get it. I think. I certainly don't know much about cricket!

Here's a question: Is there such a thing as an overthrow in cricket? I mean, can a throw go into "dead ball territory"? For that matter, are there "throws," in attempts to "retire" a "runner"? See, I don't know much! 

And, if a throw can go into DBT, what's the ruling?

[HokieUmp]

3 hours ago, JHSump said:

Here's a question: Is there such a thing as an overthrow in cricket? I mean, can a throw go into "dead ball territory"? For that matter, are there "throws," in attempts to "retire" a "runner"? See, I don't know much! 

It can go past the rope boundary, but it would take a hell of a terrible throw, and a lot of poor backups.  If it crosses the rope, I think there are penalty runs added to the score.  But - and I REALLY hope you were seriously asking, since I seem to be hell-bent on answering - a fielder can throw the ball the wicket.  If he knocks the bails (wood pieces that balance on top of the stakes, is as easy as I can put it) off before the batsman gets across the line, the batsman is 'out.'  Or, properly said, his wicket is taken.  And they're not runners - they're batsmen.

Sorry, after six years in Australia, when they were the dominant Test cricket nation, I kinda got into the game.  I mean, I voluntarily went to a day's play of Test cricket AND went to an international One-Day match between the Aussies and the Kiwis.

(I also dig Aussie Rules football and rugby league.)

[JHSump]

18 minutes ago, HokieUmp said:

It can go past the rope boundary, but it would take a hell of a terrible throw, and a lot of poor backups.  If it crosses the rope, I think there are penalty runs added to the score.  But - and I REALLY hope you were seriously asking, since I seem to be hell-bent on answering - a fielder can throw the ball the wicket.  If he knocks the bails (wood pieces that balance on top of the stakes, is as easy as I can put it) off before the batsman gets across the line, the batsman is 'out.'  Or, properly said, his wicket is taken.  And they're not runners - they're batsmen.

Sorry, after six years in Australia, when they were the dominant Test cricket nation, I kinda got into the game.  I mean, I voluntarily went to a day's play of Test cricket AND went to an international One-Day match between the Aussies and the Kiwis.

(I also dig Aussie Rules football and rugby league.)

I was definitely asking! Thanks for the answers.

And I knew you spent time in Australia. So, I figured you knew! Like I said, I know next to nothing about cricket, but I do know it's a cousin of baseball. So, the batsmen are like batter-runners!