Play at first/play at home

[RingEmUp]

So this happened last night.  2outs and R1 at 2nd base.  BR hits a grounder that looks like it will get between F4 and F6 on the 2nd base side.  F4 makes a great sliding stab at the ball but BR beats the throw.  Meanwhile, R1 is trying to score on the play.  I was the plate ump and moved to see the run lane/pulled foot at first but I didn't go up the line.  F3 throws home as R1 is speeding down the line.  F2 goes for the swipe tag and I call safe but I hated my angle.  Is there a better mechanic for this type of play? 

[Thunderheads]

With runners in scoring position, you must always "stay home" ..... it sounds like you were ........   what 'angle' didn't you care for?

[johnnyg08]

Let's put "R2" at 2b so we're all on the same page.

 

We talked about a play similar to this in a different thread a couple weeks ago.  

 

You have to keep your head on a swivel.  The play at the plate is your primary. Helping the base umpire is secondary. 

[blue23ll]

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

[ricka56]

You're staying home, so the angle that you get at a possible pulled foot isn't going to change much whether you are in 1BLX or point of plate (POP). It is going to be harder to adjust if you start from 1BLX if there is a quick throw home. So why not be prepared for a possible play at HP (POP) and then adjust from there as need be.

 

Also, you don't want to be in the path of a throw from F3/deflection off of F2...I'd be shading towards 3BLX

[Majordave]

PoP for play at 1B. Adjust to 3BLX as R2 comes down 3BL toward plate. Possible adjust a step or more to your right as play occurs. Trying to see ball, F2, plate and R2 clearly as they all converge.

[noumpere]

Start at POP.  If you read a bad throw to first, step to your left to get a view of the play at first (even if it doesn't help with the call much, it will help sell it).  And, of course, your primary on this, especially with two outs, is the touch at third.

 

Either way, once you read R2 coming home (and they will always "threaten" this with two outs), then move a couple of steps to your right toward 3BX.

[bam]

Thank you @johnnyg08.  There's nothing worse than FED's designation for baserunners. 

 

Having said that, there's nothing wrong with doing your primary job, which is calling the play at the plate.  If you're going to give something up here, give up a bit of the angle on the pulled foot/swipe tag.  Start at POP and move out to 3BLX. 

[labguy1971]

POP as your money play is the play at the plate and your still in good position to help with pulled foot at 1B.  New guy so I am also working on positioning and footwork to get the best angle.  Good question.

[woodiemiller]

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

I dont agree. 3B line extended can block you out from the catchers body.

[blue23ll]

 

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

I dont agree. 3B line extended can block you out from the catchers body.

 

   

[Richvee]

 

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

I dont agree. 3B line extended can block you out from the catchers body.

 

So you would rather be...........??

[scrounge]

 

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

I dont agree. 3B line extended can block you out from the catchers body.

 

 

 

It's not the catcher's body I'm interested in seeing, it's the swipe tag or possible obs/int. 3BLX won't be the best for every play - but it will be for most. Play the percentages, adjust as necessary.

[johnnyg08]

I would rather be out of position at 3BLX than ever 1BLX.  

[UMP45]

 

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

I dont agree. 3B line extended can block you out from the catchers body.

 

Woodiemiller let me explain what is being taught. On plays at the plate you start at POP and read the play/throw. If it it s going to be a "regular" tag play you will move more 3blx. If it is a swipe tag you will follow the catchers hip in to fair territory so you can look through the play.

[ricka56]

The only time that F2 might block you out when you're at 3BLX (and the only time I would adjust towards 1BLX) is if you read that the runner was going straight in (under F2) and trying to beat the tag.

[johnnyg08]

In that case, you could rotate counter clockwise into fair territory to get a look.  Still no need to go 1BLX

[ricka56]

In that case, you could rotate counter clockwise into fair territory to get a look.  Still no need to go 1BLX

From POP ? That's too many steps. This straight in read doesn't give you time to do that.

 

Infield in, GB to F3/4/5/6, R3 tries to go straight-in to beat the tag at HP. Are you suggesting that you should rotate around into fair territory to see this bang-bang play ? I would disagree.

[johnnyg08]

 

In that case, you could rotate counter clockwise into fair territory to get a look.  Still no need to go 1BLX

From POP ? That's too many steps. This straight in read doesn't give you time to do that.

 

Infield in, GB to F3/4/5/6, R3 tries to go straight-in to beat the tag at HP. Are you suggesting that you should rotate around into fair territory to see this bang-bang play ? I would disagree.

 

 

No, I don't suggest that.  I posted in the wrong thread.  It wouldn't be a good idea on a throw coming back from F3

[UmpTTS43]

Any time you have a runner scoring with a play being made to first you need to be 1BLX for pulled foot/swipe tag. Once that play is complete you must adjust for potential play at the plate, 3BLX. Sometimes you just have to move.

Standing POP does absolutely nothing.

[blue23ll]

Any time you have a runner scoring with a play being made to first you need to be 1BLX for pulled foot/swipe tag. Once that play is complete you must adjust for potential play at the plate, 3BLX. Sometimes you just have to move.

Standing POP does absolutely nothing.

This is so true!! Point of the plate is your starting point, not where you should be to call the play. 

[labguy1971]

I still think POP is best position.  Gotta see the touch at 3rd and you can still help with F3 pulling foot or swipe tag (POP is not that far from 1BL).  Going 1BLX causes to many problems I think, 1st seeing the catchers back, second be more in the way of a bad throw by F3 that deflects away.  Read the throw from F3 and than read your catcher as he will tell you where the play is to be made (tag) and a couple of steps towards 1B around the plate should get you in the proper position.  I always go by a rule that my head trainer told me, go in this order.  1st- fair-foul, 2nd- catch-no catch and than everything else.  Everything else for PU would be first, touch at 3rd, 2nd help with F3 pulling foot or swipe tag, see if runner is advancing home and than read throw if true than read F2 as he will tell you where tag is going to happen.  Just my opinion

[woodiemiller]

 

 

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

I dont agree. 3B line extended can block you out from the catchers body.

 

So you would rather be...........??

 

1B line extended?

[MidAmUmp]

So this happened last night.  2outs and R1 at 2nd base.  BR hits a grounder that looks like it will get between F4 and F6 on the 2nd base side.  F4 makes a great sliding stab at the ball but BR beats the throw.  Meanwhile, R1 is trying to score on the play.  I was the plate ump and moved to see the run lane/pulled foot at first but I didn't go up the line.  F3 throws home as R1 is speeding down the line.  F2 goes for the swipe tag and I call safe but I hated my angle.  Is there a better mechanic for this type of play? 

Break all of this down - 

1. Ground ball up the middle that you think is going to get thru if not for a great play by the 2nd baseman - take off your mask and back up to the POP.
2. 2nd baseman is throwing to 1st and R2 isn't stopping. You say you moved to see the running lane/pulled foot @ 1st. That's secondary to your own responsibility on the play - R2's touch of 3rd, which can be viewed from POP. You aren't going to have a running lane violation on a ball hit up the middle. You can get a look at a potential pulled foot at 1st from POP...but don't give up your responsibility (touch @ 3rd) for being an extra set of eyes on your partner's call (pulled foot @ 1st).
3. Ball and runner coming to the plate and the catcher is setting up for a swipe tag, move to stay on his hip/glove arm (usually 3BLX to start) and swing around staying on his arm/hip through the tag (which will usually have you ending up on 1BL or in fair territory).

[Thunderheads]

 

 

 

I think ideally 3blx is probably the best place for most plays at the plate. Try to line up with the catchers left hip, where you can see the glove and runner. Sometimes you can't get the best angle, so you have to settle for what you can get. 

I dont agree. 3B line extended can block you out from the catchers body.

 

So you would rather be...........??

 

1B line extended?

 

1blx?  If I'm not mistaken, ....and I MAY be ........but .......I don't think 1blx is taught anywhere anymore, no?