PITCHER REQUIREMENT

[tbuck18]

UNDER NFHS /MLB RULES CAN ANYBODY HELP CLARIFY THE FOLLOWING:

STARTING PITCHER BEGINS GAME AND CONTINUES INTO THE 5TH INNING WHERE HE THEN COMES OUT TO TO BEGIN HIS WARM-UP PITCHES ON THE RUBBER AND COMPLETES (4) WARM-UP PITCHES AND THEN THE MANAGER COMES OUT AND REMOVES THE PITCHER ( NON-INJURY) FOR ANOTHER PITCHER.  IS THIS ALLOWED OR DOES HE STILL HAVE TO FACE THE FIRST BATTER IN NOW THE 5TH INNING??  PLEASE ALSO SITE THE RULE FOR REFERENCE   THANKS

[JaxRolo]

Must pitch to a batter. On edit: Looks like my statement is true for OBR only. In Fed the starter can be removed and the sub must face a batter.

[Cav]

?

[Jimurray]

UNDER NFHS /MLB RULES CAN ANYBODY HELP CLARIFY THE FOLLOWING:

STARTING PITCHER BEGINS GAME AND CONTINUES INTO THE 5TH INNING WHERE HE THEN COMES OUT TO TO BEGIN HIS WARM-UP PITCHES ON THE RUBBER AND COMPLETES (4) WARM-UP PITCHES AND THEN THE MANAGER COMES OUT AND REMOVES THE PITCHER ( NON-INJURY) FOR ANOTHER PITCHER.  IS THIS ALLOWED OR DOES HE STILL HAVE TO FACE THE FIRST BATTER IN NOW THE 5TH INNING??  PLEASE ALSO SITE THE RULE FOR REFERENCE   THANKS

Must pitch in OBR:

3.05(d)

(d) If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on his way to take his

place on the pitcher’s plate to start an inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until

such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the batter is substituted for, or the

pitcher sustains an injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief,

incapacitates him from pitching. If the pitcher ends the previous inning on base or

at bat and does not return to the dugout after the inning is completed, the pitcher is

not required to pitch to the first batter of the inning until he makes contact with the

pitcher’s plate to begin his warm-up pitches.

 

I don't think he has to pitch to first batter in NFHS.

[Jocko]

He does

[Jimurray]

He does

He does have to pitch to the first batter of each inning? NFHS rule?

[ALStripes17]

I don't have my case book on me but I am with @Jimurray on this one as of right now.

Rule 3-1-1 "...the player listed as pitcher (on starting lineup card) shall pitch until the first opposing batter has been put out or has advanced to first base. IN ANY OTHER CASE, A SUBSTITUTE MAY REPLACE A PLAYER OF HIS OWN TEAM WHEN THE BALL IS DEAD AND TIME IS CALLED..."

I don't see any 'beginning of an inning' comment anywhere.

Sorry for the CAPS, I can't do color fonts and whatnot on my phone :/

[JaxRolo]

Who said beginning of an inning?

[Replacematt]

Who said beginning of an inning?

 

When else would an existing pitcher take warm-up pitches (aside after a delay, which I'll assume wasn't the case due to its omission?)

[tbuck18]

Thanks for the rule on MLB or OLB for rule 3.05 (d) which does prohibit the pitcher being removed during warmups on the rubber for anything other than an injury.  Still under the NFHS rules I cannot find a rule interpretation for what I am asking as remember its the starting pitcher now into the game going back out to the mound for his fifth inning of work, takes about 4 warm -up throws from the rubber and the coach then decides to remove him and its not injury related.  Simply the coach forget to make a switch prior to the start of the inning and realized it after the pitcher started warming up so under NFHS rules is this allowed and please provide the rule describing this if possible   thanks

I believe I would be correct to say if this happened in the first inning, before the first batter came to the plate the pitcher has to pitch to at least the first batter unless medically discharged but this scenario described above is different and I am not sure if its handled in the same manner or different under NFHS rules   thanks

[Replacematt]

FED does not have this restriction. He can even return to pitch later.

[Jocko]

FED does not have this restriction. He can even return to pitch later.

I believe you're correct. 3-1-1 & 3-1-2 cover both scenarios. And nowhere does it say the starter cant be subbed anywhere but to start the game.

[Jocko]

And 3-1-1 is kind of misleading : "....the player listed as pitcher shall pitch until the first opposing batter has been put out or has advanced to first base."

"PENALTY: If the starting pitcher does not face one batter, he may play another position, but not return to pitch."

Under what criteria is it legal to remove starting F1 before facing a batter, other than an injury?

Case 3-1-1-k doesn't clarify this either

[goody14]

And 3-1-1 is kind of misleading : "....the player listed as pitcher shall pitch until the first opposing batter has been put out or has advanced to first base."

"PENALTY: If the starting pitcher does not face one batter, he may play another position, but not return to pitch."

Under what criteria is it legal to remove starting F1 before facing a batter, other than an injury?

Case 3-1-1-k doesn't clarify this either

What if he is the visiting pitcher, a crappy hitter and his coach pinch hits for him?

 

If he does not re-enter right away and pitch to the first batter, then if he re-enters later, he cannot do so to the mound.

 

3rd world?  Sure...but I cannot think of any other scenario other than ejection (and with that you would not worry about him returning as a non-pitcher since he would not be returning).

[Replacematt]

And 3-1-1 is kind of misleading : "....the player listed as pitcher shall pitch until the first opposing batter has been put out or has advanced to first base."

"PENALTY: If the starting pitcher does not face one batter, he may play another position, but not return to pitch."

Under what criteria is it legal to remove starting F1 before facing a batter, other than an injury?

Case 3-1-1-k doesn't clarify this either

 

You can remove him for any reason, but only illness, injury, or discipline are exempt from the penalty of disqualification as a pitcher.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I had an interesting situation in a weekend tournament 3-4 years ago where some of this came into play.  The visiting team batted around nearly twice in the 1st inning, scoring 14 or 15 runs.  When their turn at bat finally ended, the kid who was listed as the pitcher was on base.  One of his teammates brought his glove out to him, and he immediately started taking his warm ups.  Apparently this kid was their #1 pitcher, and his manager (wanting to save his innings) decided to put somebody else on the mound.

 

When the manager came out to make the change, I reminded him that unless that pitcher faced at least one batter he would not be eligible to return as pitcher during this game.  Being up 14 or 15 runs, of course, he didn't care.  In hindsight, I wish that I hadn't bothered to tell him that, because the opposing manager heard what I said, and after one pitch he came out and declared that he wanted to file a protest on the grounds that they had made an illegal substitution.

 

I told him "yes, it IS technically an illegal substitution, but the only penalty is that the originally listed pitcher could NOT return to pitch later in the game, and that it didn't effect the eligibility of the new pitcher."  He was a bit of a jerk, and insisted that he had valid grounds for protest.  I told him "you know the procedure, give me $100 (the protest fee) and I'll get the UIC over here right now...but I gotta tell you, you're wasting your money."  He handed me a crisp new Ben Franklin, I sent both teams to their dugouts and called for the UIC. 

 

After hearing the protest and asking some questions, UIC says "your protest is without merit at this point.  Now, if that originally listed starting pitcher was allowed to return to pitch later in the game, you'd have a valid protest."  Coach says "OK then, so I get my money back, right?"  "No, you only get the deposit back if the protest is upheld" says UIC.  "That's a crock of ****" says manager as he turns to walk back to his dugout "we may as well just forfeit."

 

He called his players together in a huddle just outside their dugout, and they talked for 2-3 minutes.  Without saying another word, they all packed up their gear and left.  I had a brief chat with UIC as the last of them were leaving, and followed his instructions (altho not sure these steps were really necessary).  Called the defense back on the field, asked for a batter...(they were in the parking lot by now), announced PLAY, had pitcher deliver one pitch, called it a strike, then declared time and announced the forfeit.

 

Neither the UIC nor I knew that the tournament rules included a clause that said "any team losing a game by forfeit shall be disqualified further participation in the event."  I felt bad for the kids and their parents, but would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the TD gave that coach the news.

[Rich Ives]

And 3-1-1 is kind of misleading : "....the player listed as pitcher shall pitch until the first opposing batter has been put out or has advanced to first base."

"PENALTY: If the starting pitcher does not face one batter, he may play another position, but not return to pitch."

Under what criteria is it legal to remove starting F1 before facing a batter, other than an injury?

Case 3-1-1-k doesn't clarify this either

 

But it's not each inning. It's just the first batter he faces. Period.  Unless there's an exception elsewhere.

[ricka56]

 

UNDER NFHS /MLB RULES CAN ANYBODY HELP CLARIFY THE FOLLOWING:

STARTING PITCHER BEGINS GAME AND CONTINUES INTO THE 5TH INNING WHERE HE THEN COMES OUT TO TO BEGIN HIS WARM-UP PITCHES ON THE RUBBER AND COMPLETES (4) WARM-UP PITCHES AND THEN THE MANAGER COMES OUT AND REMOVES THE PITCHER ( NON-INJURY) FOR ANOTHER PITCHER.  IS THIS ALLOWED OR DOES HE STILL HAVE TO FACE THE FIRST BATTER IN NOW THE 5TH INNING??  PLEASE ALSO SITE THE RULE FOR REFERENCE   THANKS

Must pitch in OBR:

3.05(d)

(d) If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on his way to take his

place on the pitcher’s plate to start an inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until

such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the batter is substituted for, or the

pitcher sustains an injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief,

incapacitates him from pitching. If the pitcher ends the previous inning on base or

at bat and does not return to the dugout after the inning is completed, the pitcher is

not required to pitch to the first batter of the inning until he makes contact with the

pitcher’s plate to begin his warm-up pitches.

 

I don't think he has to pitch to first batter in NFHS.

 

If memory serves, this part OBR 3.05 was a  recent addition to the rules in the last 2-3 years. It was added after an MLB manager (Joe Madden, I believe) did some strange F1 change that gave him an advantage (I've forgotten the details). They added this rule to prevent a repeat.

 

To my knowledge, Fed did not follow suit.

[Jimurray]

 

 

UNDER NFHS /MLB RULES CAN ANYBODY HELP CLARIFY THE FOLLOWING:

STARTING PITCHER BEGINS GAME AND CONTINUES INTO THE 5TH INNING WHERE HE THEN COMES OUT TO TO BEGIN HIS WARM-UP PITCHES ON THE RUBBER AND COMPLETES (4) WARM-UP PITCHES AND THEN THE MANAGER COMES OUT AND REMOVES THE PITCHER ( NON-INJURY) FOR ANOTHER PITCHER.  IS THIS ALLOWED OR DOES HE STILL HAVE TO FACE THE FIRST BATTER IN NOW THE 5TH INNING??  PLEASE ALSO SITE THE RULE FOR REFERENCE   THANKS

Must pitch in OBR:

3.05(d)

(d) If a pitcher who is already in the game crosses the foul line on his way to take his

place on the pitcher’s plate to start an inning, he shall pitch to the first batter until

such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the batter is substituted for, or the

pitcher sustains an injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire-in-chief,

incapacitates him from pitching. If the pitcher ends the previous inning on base or

at bat and does not return to the dugout after the inning is completed, the pitcher is

not required to pitch to the first batter of the inning until he makes contact with the

pitcher’s plate to begin his warm-up pitches.

 

I don't think he has to pitch to first batter in NFHS.

 

If memory serves, this part OBR 3.05 was a  recent addition to the rules in the last 2-3 years. It was added after an MLB manager (Joe Madden, I believe) did some strange F1 change that gave him an advantage (I've forgotten the details). They added this rule to prevent a repeat.

 

To my knowledge, Fed did not follow suit.

 

Yes it's not in my 2011 copy of OBR but it is in my 2013 copy. I don't have a 2012 edition. NCAA also added this.

[noumpere]

FED does not have this restriction. He can even return to pitch later.

Assuming the releif pitcher only takes 1 warmup (the starter took 4, and only 5 are allowed).  If the releif pitcher takes more than 1, then the starting F1 can return to the game but he cannot pitch).  All of the above for FED.