Ball overthrown on baserunning appeal

[ChrisMoUmp]

Hypothetical Question - FED rules.

 

R3, no outs. Batter hits fly ball to left field.  R3 leaves too early on the tag and is safe at home without a play.  While the ball is still live (no verbal appeals can be made until ball is dead/time is called), the coach tells the pitcher (who now has the ball) to throw to the 3rd baseman to appeal, only the pitcher air-mails the throw over the 3B head, but not out of play.  What do we have?  Does the defense lose the appeal if they didn't successfully attempt it?

 

I was plate umpire yesterday and this play came up, except the runner did legally tag at 3B, so he was safe anyway, but wondered what would have happened had he left early and this happened.

 

Thanks all

[Richvee]

If the throw hadn't left the field of play, I see no reason the fielder can't pick up the ball, run over and step on 3rd to complete the appeal. 

[CricketChapman]

Granted MLBUM is not FED-related, but this is specifically covered under Interpretation #34 in MLBUM.  In OBR, the appeal can still be made because no intervening play/attempted play has occured (and this is not "erring").

[UmpJM]

Richvee & Cricket are correct.

 

Under both FED & OBR, the defense would still have the opportunity to complete the appeal, provided the ball did not go out of play.

 

Under NCAA, it depends...

 

JM

[noumpere]

Richvee & Cricket are correct.

 

Under both FED & OBR, the defense would still have the opportunity to complete the appeal, provided the ball did not go out of play.

 

Under NCAA, it depends...

 

JM

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

[ChrisMoUmp]

Thank you everyone for your replies, along the lines of what I was thinking but didn't see anything specifically in the NFHS rulebook or casebook for this scenario.

[Platejob29]

 

Richvee & Cricket are correct.

 

Under both FED & OBR, the defense would still have the opportunity to complete the appeal, provided the ball did not go out of play.

 

Under NCAA, it depends...

 

JM

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

 

Where in the NFHS rulebook does it say an appeal can still be granted if the first appeal attempt is thrown out of play? I'm not questioning your comment I'm just a bit rusty on my FED rules.

[JaxRolo]

 

 

Richvee & Cricket are correct.

 

Under both FED & OBR, the defense would still have the opportunity to complete the appeal, provided the ball did not go out of play.

 

Under NCAA, it depends...

 

JM

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

 

Where in the NFHS rulebook does it say an appeal can still be granted if the first appeal attempt is thrown out of play? I'm not questioning your comment I'm just a bit rusty on my FED rules.

 

I don't think he meant that the ball went out of play during the first appeal attempt. I think he meant went out of play before the appeal attempt.

[ricka56]

 

 

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

 

Where in the NFHS rulebook does it say an appeal can still be granted if the first appeal attempt is thrown out of play? I'm not questioning your comment I'm just a bit rusty on my FED rules.

 

Not the RB. It's in the CB 2.29.6 B

[UmpJM]

 

 

 

Richvee & Cricket are correct.

 

Under both FED & OBR, the defense would still have the opportunity to complete the appeal, provided the ball did not go out of play.

 

Under NCAA, it depends...

 

JM

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

 

Where in the NFHS rulebook does it say an appeal can still be granted if the first appeal attempt is thrown out of play? I'm not questioning your comment I'm just a bit rusty on my FED rules.

 

I don't think he meant that the ball went out of play during the first appeal attempt. I think he meant went out of play before the appeal attempt.

 

Rolo,

 

I think he meant the ball went out of play during the first appeal attempt.

 

JM

[JaxRolo]

 

 

 

 

Richvee & Cricket are correct.

 

Under both FED & OBR, the defense would still have the opportunity to complete the appeal, provided the ball did not go out of play.

 

Under NCAA, it depends...

 

JM

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

 

Where in the NFHS rulebook does it say an appeal can still be granted if the first appeal attempt is thrown out of play? I'm not questioning your comment I'm just a bit rusty on my FED rules.

 

I don't think he meant that the ball went out of play during the first appeal attempt. I think he meant went out of play before the appeal attempt.

 

Rolo,

 

I think he meant the ball went out of play during the first appeal attempt.

 

JM

 

Yep, went back and re-read. My bad! Another case of CRS.

[noumpere]

 

 

 

Richvee & Cricket are correct.

 

Under both FED & OBR, the defense would still have the opportunity to complete the appeal, provided the ball did not go out of play.

 

Under NCAA, it depends...

 

JM

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

 

Where in the NFHS rulebook does it say an appeal can still be granted if the first appeal attempt is thrown out of play? I'm not questioning your comment I'm just a bit rusty on my FED rules.

 

I don't think he meant that the ball went out of play during the first appeal attempt. I think he meant went out of play before the appeal attempt.

 

Either way, the appeal is still allowed in FED.

[Richvee]

I'd like to make sure I have this right. 

R3, less than 2 out. fly out to F9. R3 tags and scores, but leaves early. 

F9 sails a throw over F5's head into DBT. (Puig comes to mind here)

 

1. FED can still appeal R3 leaving early, either by DB appeal, or proper appeal when the ball is put back into play.

2. OBR - The defense lost it's right to appeal because of the overthrow during continuous action? 

[UmpJM]

Richvee,

 

No, if it's a live ball "continuous action" appeal when the ball goes out of play, the defense does not lose it's right to appeal, even in OBR.

 

JM

[Richvee]

Richvee,

 

No, if it's a live ball "continuous action" appeal when the ball goes out of play, the defense does not lose it's right to appeal, even in OBR.

 

JM

Thanks. That's what I thought, but reading this thread, I was beginning to wonder. 

[noumpere]

 

Richvee,

 

No, if it's a live ball "continuous action" appeal when the ball goes out of play, the defense does not lose it's right to appeal, even in OBR.

 

JM

Thanks. That's what I thought, but reading this thread, I was beginning to wonder. 

 

The difference is in the similar play where the ball goes back to the pitcher (not that this is required) and play is relaxed.  Now F1 wants to appeal and throws the ball over F5's head and into DBT.

 

OBR:  No further appeal.

FED:  Can still appeal.

NCAA:  It depends (on whether OTHER runners advanced on the overthrow) 

[sdix00]

 

 

 

And under FED (as this was) even if the ball went out of play they could still appeal again and it would be granted.

 

Where in the NFHS rulebook does it say an appeal can still be granted if the first appeal attempt is thrown out of play? I'm not questioning your comment I'm just a bit rusty on my FED rules.

 

Not the RB. It's in the CB 2.29.6 B

 

 

 

@ricka56 is correct.  It is not in the rule book. (clarified in the casebook.)

 

Specifically, 

This OBR 7.10 phrase:

â–  If the defensive team on its first appeal errs, a request for a second appeal on the same runner at the same base shall not be allowed by the umpire.

 is missing from NFHS:

 

So, because it is not in the NFHS rulebook, it makes the subsequent appeal legal.