Watching Warm-up Pitches

[Thunderheads]

 

All I want to know, does F1 have a knuckle-curve that he's not going to throw until the 4th inning and surprise me  ...but then if my timing is good, that shouldn't matter.

 

LawUmp makes the point that if you have good timing, you don't need to know what F1's out pitch is. If an umpire starts to acticipate what pitch is coming, he could get himself in trouble. And usually it doesn't take long to figure out what F1 is capable of. So if you have good timing, where is the need for this intel?

 

Ask F2 for this intel if you like, but some don't need/want it. And suggesting that getting this intel is best is just misplaced hubris.

Exactly.  If you have good timing, getting intel from F2 is unneeded. 

 

At the end of the day, I'd have to say that I agree w/ lawump... it's valid information.

 

Is intel needed?  No, timing should (should) suffice

Does it hurt to know? No ....

 

BUT ..... also, .... intel shouldn't hinder your job responsibilities either

 

I think this is something where there will be people on either side of the fence, ... you either want info, or don't ..... and THAT'S OK!

[yawetag]

It's not about timing, personally. It's about rhythm, which is completely different. If the pitcher's been throwing mid-70s all game, your mind becomes used to the speed and directs your eyes to be accustomed to it. If my subconscious is constantly expecting 70s and he throws that slow 12-6 curve with two strikes, the rhythm gets off and you bail on the pitch. If, in the back of your mind, you know F1 *might* slow it down, there's a better chance you'll be able to stay with the pitch the whole way.

 

Now, don't take that as a sign that I'm anticipating to the point of no return. The point is that knowing he's got that pitch in his back pocket keeps your mind aware of the fact that he might just throw it. If it's been two innings of watching the guy throw fastballs, that immediate change of speed and direction is going to screw with you - especially if you're not aware that it's in his arsenal.

[MidAmUmp]

Let me be clear: I'm not a jerk when it comes to F2's.  If they come out to start the game and want to shake my hand, of course, I'll shake their hand and say, "I'm Matt, good to meet you."  During the game, if they ask where a pitch missed, I'll be glad to answer them (as long as ask the right way.)  Furthermore, during the game I will use F2 as a buffer between his team and I.  For example, I will tell F2, "hey, help me out and go out there and tell your pitcher he's got to take that compression sleeve off." 

 

In other words, I am professional to F2, I give F2 more leeway to discuss pitches/plays with me than other persons and I use F2 as a person who can help me control the game.  But, I'm not one of those guys who feels the need to have a running conversation during the whole game with F2.  He's got a job to do, I've got a job to do.  I just want to get back there and work.  I see too many guys talking for a longer period to F2's during a game than my wife talks on the phone with her mother (and that's a long time!)

 

I'm just not a talker on the field.  I don't have conversations with players, I don't have conversations with base coaches and I don't have conversations with my partners between innings.  And I sure don't need (or want) F2's to tell me what F1 throws.  As I said above, an umpire doesn't need any information from F2 about "what F1 throws" if he has good timing. 

 

I don't completely disagree with this.  I hardly ever talk to the catcher *during the game*.  But I do want to know what the pitcher throws before the game.  Fast, curve, slider...no big deal.  Knuckleball, splitter, change, something nasty...I want to know and see it before the game so it doesn't surprise me when he throws it.  I also want to know what his go to pitch is when he needs a strikeout.  Again, fast, curve, slider...no big deal.  But anything else I want to know he may throw it in this situation and I need to be ready.  Yes, good timing helps, but you can still get surprised by velocity or movement if you don't know what could potentially be coming in every situation.  Just like a batter who looks silly if he's sitting on a fast ball and the pitcher throws a change up, you're going to look silly if you didn't think he'd throw a knuckle curve or a circle change in a certain situation.  I don't ever anticipate a pitcher throwing a certain pitch, what I want to know what's there and what might be coming.

[Forest Ump]

I do what umpstu said in post 3. Starter only. I may look at a relief pitcher if he's submariner. Those always take a little time to get use to tracking.

[umpstu]

 

Before the top of the first, I take 3 on the left and 3 on the right.  I don't speak to the catcher, unless he talks to me.  I don't want to know what F2's pitcher throws.  The laws of physics are the same for each pitcher.  If I have GOOD timing, it doesn't matter what F1 throws because I will have seen it before. 

Really?  What level do you call?

 

Wow.  I must not be very good.  I see some pretty wicked breaking balls that do stuff I've never seen before just about every time I work.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong...

 

Why wouldn't you want to know what the pitcher is going to throw when he has to get an out?

 

Well...back to the old drawing board...

 

Amen, brother. I've been working college ball for 17 years and have always looked at both starters and relief pitchers. I don't have any idea why they teach this?

[umpstu]

I do what umpstu said in post 3. Starter only. I may look at a relief pitcher if he's submariner. Those always take a little time to get use to tracking.

You're a smart lad.

[Umpire in Chief]

I understand what you are saying about if you have good timing what the pitcher throws is secondary and true for the most part.

 

I just want to know whats in his repertoire. If you are looking as the same pitches for a few innings then in the 5th he breaks out something nasty, I would just like to know the possibility of it ahead of time.

 

I've even had a catcher tell me something like the pitcher is working on _________ you may see a few of those today too. Which I love. The more info the better.

 

No so much in terms of anticipation, just general knowledge. 

[JCRO1558]

In the poll portion I would almost say it's how advanced the pitcher is rather than just the age. I've seen some young ones with great stuff and if I see he's pretty advanced then I'll check out two from both side and carry on.

[JaxRolo]

In the poll portion I would almost say it's how advanced the pitcher is rather than just the age. I've seen some young ones with great stuff and if I see he's pretty advanced then I'll check out two from both side and carry on.

That's a good point

[mstaylor]

I used to take two on each side but now I generally just do one. I do ask my catcher his name and what the pitcher has. If he has something odd, split finger, knuckle, something like that, I certainly want to see it. It is good to know if he has an odd pitch and whether it is really good or really bad. I had a pitcher years ago that was throwing high eighties/low nineties but very little control. He had a summer coach that taught him a split finger, a total disaster. He couldn't control the fastball, the split finger was usually about 59ft. This is info you should have ahead of time. The other thing, especially at HS and below, is guys that claim a knuckleball that is really just a ball that doesn't spin, no movement.

[tldavis19]

I don't know why it is, but I don't watch warm up pitches at all. I started out not watching them and veteran guys have always complemented me on my zone so I figure I shouldn't try to fix what's not broken. I'll introduce myself to the catcher as he walks out to start warm ups and then I'll move to my spot on whichever foul line is appropriate and count pitches. When the catcher throws down I move in and sweep the plate and as I move around the plate to my position I'll ask the catcher something funny like "You gonna keep me clean tonight" or "I just got these shoes, try to keep them from getting ruined" to relax both of us and let him know I'm not going to eat him alive. During the course of the game I don't chit chat. If a pitch misses close I'll just say something like "bring it in" or "bring it up" but otherwise we're both doing our jobs. I like to keep my communication relaxed with the catcher. It has helped me 100% of the time when a pitch misses and a coach goes berserk the catcher has stepped up and said "coach it missed" then turned to me and said "good call, blue." In return I'll complement a good throw down or stop on a wild pitch. I treat catchers like I'd like to be treated.

[lawump]

 

 

Before the top of the first, I take 3 on the left and 3 on the right.  I don't speak to the catcher, unless he talks to me.  I don't want to know what F2's pitcher throws.  The laws of physics are the same for each pitcher.  If I have GOOD timing, it doesn't matter what F1 throws because I will have seen it before. 

Really?  What level do you call?

 

Wow.  I must not be very good.  I see some pretty wicked breaking balls that do stuff I've never seen before just about every time I work.  Maybe I'm doing something wrong...

 

Why wouldn't you want to know what the pitcher is going to throw when he has to get an out?

 

Well...back to the old drawing board...

 

Amen, brother. I've been working college ball for 17 years and have always looked at both starters and relief pitchers. I don't have any idea why they teach this?

 

I was a pro umpire.  The most wicked breaking ball I've ever seen was thrown by Dwight Gooden.  He was on a minor league rehab assignment after having hernia surgery.  All I can say is that when he threw his first breaking ball (third pitch of the game), when the catcher caught it I said to myself, "so, that's a major league curveball."   Then I came up out of my crouch and said, "strike."  I had never seen anything like it

 

Point being, I had never seen a pitch like that in my life.  The catcher did not warn me before the first inning (hell, the minor league kid catching him that night had no idea what stuff "Dr. K" had (or did not have) so the catcher could not have told me what to watch for even if he wanted to.).  But, my timing was excellent.  It was no big deal.  I stayed in my crouch, tracked the pitch all the way to the catcher's glove, saw that it was a strike and then came up and said, "strike". 

[UmpTTS43]

I have a routine during warmup pitches which is to primarily introduce myself to the catcher and to give and get information. Primarily I let him know what he should expect from me and I from him. Watching the release point and trying to pick up the rotation of the ball, along with tracking, helps get my eyes and brain engaged for my job for the next 2 12-3 hours. I take pitches from both sides in order to settle in to that perspective and kick in my muscle memory. I do this with both catchers.

During a pitching change, I let at least two pitches go while I note changes on my lineup. These are usually fast balls anyway. When I step back there I again pick up release point, rotation of ball and break on his breaking pitches. I may watch one pitch or four depending on his pitching style. When two pitches are left I tell the pitcher. When one is left I let ondeck and pitcher know.

Most experienced catchers will let you know what he's throwing. If the reliever has a traditional delivery I may step behind F2 just for that information.

I find that getting back there during pregame warmups helps my mind and body prepare.

Short story. This past fall I was asked to work scout day at a large DI school. Start time was to be 11. We arrive at 1015. As we were getting dressed asst asked if we could go early. No problem we needed five minutes. We hit the field in five minutes and they had already started. My first pitch had right batter crowding, F2 working inside and a pitch at least 95 on the inside corner. It sounded like a strike lol. I was only 2 weeks out of my regular season but it was like it was the first pitch of the year. This reinforced that getting my mind and body prepared during pregame is important for my game.

Everyone has their own philosophy. This works for me.

[alex7]

Perhaps umpires wanting to know / not wanting to know what the pitcher throws is akin to some batters wanting info from that R2 and other batters not wanting any hints.  Some just like to read and react without even thinking about a possible change-up away for the fear of getting locked by an inside fastball - both as a batter and umpire.

 

because it's 1:30 am, I'll share that I'm reminded of a random "curse" that SI writer Rick Reilly had in a list of baseball curses:  "May you be thinking change-up low and away when Randy Johnson comes hard up and in."

[Magic]

 

 

 

Before the top of the first, I take 3 on the left and 3 on the right.  I don't speak to the catcher, unless he talks to me.  I don't want to know what F2's pitcher throws.  The laws of physics are the same for each pitcher.  If I have GOOD timing, it doesn't matter what F1 throws because I will have seen it before. 

 

The six warm-ups I take before the top of the first are the only warm-up pitches I will watch with one exception: If the top of the first is exceptionally quick (say a 4 pitch inning where I called no pitches) I might watch the visiting team pitcher's warm-up pitches.  But that is extremely rare.  Usually a few batters into the top of the first inning, I have entered "game mode".  At that point, watching warm-up pitches would only serve to get me out of "game mode" due to the fact that they are thrown differently (often times they are throw with less than 100% velocity and the pitcher throws his warm-ups at a much quicker pace.)

 

Intel from the catcher is very helpful. F2 is your best friend on the field next to your partner. Talk to him!!!!

 

An experenced umpire talking here!

 

Not to compare experiences here...but I was a pro umpire and, subsequently, a Div. 1 umpire, so I'm not exactly inexperienced.

 

Let me be clear: I'm not a jerk when it comes to F2's.  If they come out to start the game and want to shake my hand, of course, I'll shake their hand and say, "I'm Matt, good to meet you."  During the game, if they ask where a pitch missed, I'll be glad to answer them (as long as ask the right way.)  Furthermore, during the game I will use F2 as a buffer between his team and I.  For example, I will tell F2, "hey, help me out and go out there and tell your pitcher he's got to take that compression sleeve off." 

 

In other words, I am professional to F2, I give F2 more leeway to discuss pitches/plays with me than other persons and I use F2 as a person who can help me control the game.  But, I'm not one of those guys who feels the need to have a running conversation during the whole game with F2.  He's got a job to do, I've got a job to do.  I just want to get back there and work.  I see too many guys talking for a longer period to F2's during a game than my wife talks on the phone with her mother (and that's a long time!)

 

I'm just not a talker on the field.  I don't have conversations with players, I don't have conversations with base coaches and I don't have conversations with my partners between innings.  And I sure don't need (or want) F2's to tell me what F1 throws.  As I said above, an umpire doesn't need any information from F2 about "what F1 throws" if he has good timing. 

 

 

I am similar. I really am not a talker on the field. I don't ask the catcher what I should be expecting. I just rely on my timing. If my timing is good, I think I should be able to handle any pitch. Of course I only Umpire High School and below, so I am no expert. 

 

As far as talking to the Catcher? I don't really talk to him except introducing myself before the game. The extent of my conversations to the catcher during the game is "Gotta bring that one in" if the pitcher keeps missing outside, "Bring it up" If he is consistently missing low, or "You're squeezing me" If he keeps changing his stance on the inside at the last second. These work for me. 

 

I take 2 pitches each side, Right and Left, then tell the catcher 2 more and signal to on deck 2 more. After the next pitch I tell the Catcher 1 more, then tell the On Deck Batter 1.