Off the bag at first

[ikeequa]

I had a situation this year as coach when the first baseman clearly had his foot 2-3 inches away from the bag. The Field ump had no way to see it, but it was clearly visible for the plate ump. We even have a nice photo of it.

What is the proper procedure in this case? For clarification, If I am the plate ump and see that F3 is off the bag, do I call it immediately to help the field ump and prevent a discussion, or do I wait for the argument to ensue and the field ump to come to me? What do I do when the coach comes over and asks me if I saw it?

 

Thanks.

[noumpere]

I had a situation this year as coach when the first baseman clearly had his foot 2-3 inches away from the bag. The Field ump had no way to see it, but it was clearly visible for the plate ump. We even have a nice photo of it.

What is the proper procedure in this case? For clarification, If I am the plate ump and see that F3 is off the bag, do I call it immediately to help the field ump and prevent a discussion, or do I wait for the argument to ensue and the field ump to come to me? What do I do when the coach comes over and asks me if I saw it?

 

Thanks.

Send the coach to the calling official.  It's up to the calling official to ask for help.

 

If it's especially egregious (and I'm not sure this qualifies) then you can give the calling umpire "the look" to encourage him to ask you.

[grayhawk]

1.  It's the base umpire's call.

2.  If you think he missed something, then ask for time, have it granted, and calmly go out to speak with him.

3.  Politely tell him what you have (a pulled foot) and can he ask the PU if he had a pulled foot as well.

4.  If he refuses, then DO NOT go to the PU on your own.  You'll just have to live with the call.  Calmly return to your dugout.

5.  If he grants your request, return to your dugout and wait for the result.

6.  If it's in your favor, congrats!  If not, then accept it and move on.

 

PU should NOT step on his partner's call.  However, I pregame with my partner that if I have something, I will be standing somewhere I wouldn't normally be standing - this gives him a clue that he should grant a coach's request for help.  If he is asked for what he has by his partner, then he should give it to him and then his partner will decide if he is going to stay with his call, or change it based on the information given by the PU.

 

If the coach asks PU about the call, then PU should politely refer the coach to the umpire that made the call - in this case, the BU.

 

That's how is SHOULD happen.  I'll now return from my fantasyland and back to the real world.  

[ikeequa]

Isn't it more important to get the call right? I'm sure Tim Welke would have liked some help.

[acpar72]

Welke is working old school mechanics that lead to that situation. Regarding the request to get help...Mattingly clearly mishandled that one and basically every one since. 

[grayhawk]

Isn't it more important to get the call right? I'm sure Tim Welke would have liked some help.

 

No offense, but coaches don't give a RIP about getting the call right unless it's in THEIR favor.  How many times have we seen MLB managers storm out of their dugout after a call was changed - getting it right - just because it ended up going against them?  Plenty.

 

We follow procedures, and the majority of the time, those procedures DO lead to getting the call right.  Let's say BU had the foot on the bag and PU didn't.  Both are equally sure of what they saw.  Can you see the problem of PU stepping on BU's call now?  You think PU was right.  The opposing coach thinks BU is right - we're at a stalemate.  Since it was BU's call to make, we are back to square one.

 

Also, let's not forget that it's written in black and white in the rule book:

 

9.02 ( c ):  ...No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.

 

By inserting himself into his partner's call, he is breaking the rules he is there to enforce!

[KLAH316]

Last night, I'm PU and a good friend and regular partner is in "A".

Grounder to F5, low throw to F3.  He scoops  and keeps his glove low and the ball popped out and landed right in front of him.  My partner doesn't see the ball on the ground and bangs the out.  F3 then grabs the ball with his glove, and throws it around. 

OT Coach and pretty much everyone else who wasn't standing where my partner was saw it and starts about how he dropped the ball, etc.  Coach looks at me and I point to my partner and say "Talk to him".  I give my partner "The look" that we are used to from working together alot.  He calls me over and I tell him.  He turns around and changes to "Safe". 

 

Everyone is happy.....  Like @grayhawk said:  That's how it SHOULD happen

[grayhawk]

I had a similar situation in a varsity game last season.  Grounder to F5 and the throw is off the bag to the home plate side of first.  I am trailing the BR up the line and clearly see the swipe tag hit the BR on the left elbow before BR reaches first base.  Partner calls "safe."  Normally, I would be hustling back to the plate for the next batter, but instead, I stay where I am up the line.  Partner sees me and the DC has just barely asked him to get help and partner calls me over.  I tell him I am 100% sure that the tag got him in the left elbow.  Partner changes his call to "out" and we play on.

[mstaylor]

 

 

Isn't it more important to get the call right?

Not really, We have certain calls we are responsible for and we have mechanics to put us in the best place to make those calls. Sometimes those mechanics keep us from giving our partner help, if we can we will, but it still has to be a request from the calling umpire. 

[Jocko]

@ikeequa - like it or not, right or wrong, just because we get together and my partner has something different than I did doesn't mean the call will be reversed. I had a partner bring me in to confer one time. We got very close, he covered his mouth with his hand and said, "I don't give a rat's ass what you saw, I'm not turning that call over for that asshole." I truned around and walked back to the plate.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

Isn't it more important to get the call right? I'm sure Tim Welke would have liked some help.

 

No offense, but coaches don't give a RIP about getting the call right unless it's in THEIR favor.  How many times have we seen MLB managers storm out of their dugout after a call was changed - getting it right - just because it ended up going against them?  Plenty.

 

 

This. Right here. This post. Truer words have seldom been said.

[JaxRolo]

Isn't it more important to get the call right? I'm sure Tim Welke would have liked some help.

Not always

[Pete Peterson Sr]

@ikeequa - like it or not, right or wrong, just because we get together and my partner has something different than I did doesn't mean the call will be reversed. I had a partner bring me in to confer one time. We got very close, he covered his mouth with his hand and said, "I don't give a rat's ass what you saw, I'm not turning that call over for that asshole." I truned around and walked back to the plate.

I never called that coach an asshole. I called him a prick. BIG difference.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Last night, I'm PU and a good friend and regular partner is in "A".

Grounder to F5, low throw to F3.  He scoops  and keeps his glove low and the ball popped out and landed right in front of him.  My partner doesn't see the ball on the ground and bangs the out.  F3 then grabs the ball with his glove, and throws it around. 

OT Coach and pretty much everyone else who wasn't standing where my partner was saw it and starts about how he dropped the ball, etc.  Coach looks at me and I point to my partner and say "Talk to him".  I give my partner "The look" that we are used to from working together alot.  He calls me over and I tell him.  He turns around and changes to "Safe". 

 

Everyone is happy.....  Like @grayhawk said:  That's how it SHOULD happen

This is one of the times we as umpires need to call "time" and start walking towards our partner... this is one of the 7 times in NCAA we can get together and fix this call.

[mstaylor]

 

Last night, I'm PU and a good friend and regular partner is in "A".

Grounder to F5, low throw to F3.  He scoops  and keeps his glove low and the ball popped out and landed right in front of him.  My partner doesn't see the ball on the ground and bangs the out.  F3 then grabs the ball with his glove, and throws it around. 

OT Coach and pretty much everyone else who wasn't standing where my partner was saw it and starts about how he dropped the ball, etc.  Coach looks at me and I point to my partner and say "Talk to him".  I give my partner "The look" that we are used to from working together alot.  He calls me over and I tell him.  He turns around and changes to "Safe". 

 

Everyone is happy.....  Like @grayhawk said:  That's how it SHOULD happen

This is one of the times we as umpires need to call "time" and start walking towards our partner... this is one of the 7 times in NCAA we can get together and fix this call.

 

It can certainly be fixed if the PU sees it. If you have multiple runners or the ball was on the 3rd base line, he isn't looking. 

[maven]

If nobody says anything, let's reset and play ball! In some game situations, coach won't care about this, and in such cases, why should I?

 

If coach comes out (more likely), I'm walking out with him, and when we get there I'll ask him to give me a minute with my partner. I give him what I've got, he fixes it (or not) and we move on.

 

Easy!

[ricka56]

Isn't it more important to get the call right?

Maybe they should have a do-over so that the players can get the play right.

[Haid D' Salaami]

If nobody says anything, let's reset and play ball! In some game situations, coach won't care about this, and in such cases, why should I?

 

If coach comes out (more likely), I'm walking out with him, and when we get there I'll ask him to give me a minute with my partner. I give him what I've got, he fixes it (or not) and we move on.

 

Easy!

why would you as the PU walk with the coach.. this wasnt your call , stay out till ask your opinion.

 

and then when you guys get together, you have to send the coach to the dugout.

[ricka56]

 

If nobody says anything, let's reset and play ball! In some game situations, coach won't care about this, and in such cases, why should I?

 

If coach comes out (more likely), I'm walking out with him, and when we get there I'll ask him to give me a minute with my partner. I give him what I've got, he fixes it (or not) and we move on.

 

Easy!

why would you as the PU walk with the coach.. this wasnt your call , stay out till ask your opinion.

 

and then when you guys get together, you have to send the coach to the dugout.

 

You are right, that there usually is a correct process for a coach/ umpire discussion. But there are times when a problem has a easy fix and I wouldn't think any less of experienced umpires if they took a "no offense" shortcut to expedite the issue and got back to baseball.

[Haid D' Salaami]

 

 

If nobody says anything, let's reset and play ball! In some game situations, coach won't care about this, and in such cases, why should I?

 

If coach comes out (more likely), I'm walking out with him, and when we get there I'll ask him to give me a minute with my partner. I give him what I've got, he fixes it (or not) and we move on.

 

Easy!

why would you as the PU walk with the coach.. this wasnt your call , stay out till ask your opinion.

 

and then when you guys get together, you have to send the coach to the dugout.

 

You are right, that there usually is a correct process for a coach/ umpire discussion. But there are times when a problem has a easy fix and I wouldn't think any less of experienced umpires if they took a "no offense" shortcut to expedite the issue and got back to baseball.

 

what are you talking about willis?

 

 

there is a way we do things on a field... the coach needs to go to the umpire who made the call.. easy.. the other umpires need to to not get involved, stay out, it is not your party and you have not been invited yet.  I have the opportunity to work on the field with some really great experienced umpires, if they or i did this, some one would be very pissed, and now you could get labeled as a micro manager, or someone who always has to be in control, some things are not our business. Until we are asked......I've said this before..... SHUT UP AND UMPIRE

[Mr Umpire]

Any umpire who approaches me without being asked BY ME is not calling with me anymore.  It is not your call so DO NOT MAKE IT YOURS.  And, if your partner does not agree, do not show any facial expressions nor mouth off 1 damn word.  Deal with it and move on.  There are enough out there who want to make an umpire look bad.  DO NOT BECOME ONE OF THOSE A$$HOLES.

[dumbdumb]

And let's not forget. We have seen some calls where the umpire who made the original call went for help, and the original call was changed with help from the help umpire, and it turned out that the help umpire who was sure of the call was wrong and the original call was correct. So, aren't we suppose to get the call right. We get help and we get the call wrong. So, what are we going to do now to rectify the situation. Call the IR crew. Anybody got a quarter.

[alex7]

.