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"You haven't given my pitcher that all game"


jbucks

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Hi everyone,

 

I'm a third-year ump, no ejections to date.

 

Yesterday I was doing a men's league game, latter half of the game, team's player-coach comes to bat, runner on 2B.

 

First pitch is a called strike, he sort of lets out a sigh of contempt, turns to face me and says something to the effect of, "Come on. That's been a ball for my pitcher all game long. Be consistent!" This is all in a moderately raised voice, with emphasis on the word "consistent" so that pretty much everyone in the infield can hear him.He then steps out of the box.

 

I sort of engage him at this point, telling him I don't want to hear anything about favoring one team over another or any comments calling my integrity into question. Meanwhile  - I guess while infielders are straining to hear what's going on - the runner on 2B swipes third. Time was never called.

 

After that and while stepping into the box, the batter says, "You've had no control over this game."

 

I feel like I should have ejected him there, but didn't. 

 

Couple quetions:

 

1. Does this sort of behavior warrant an ejection? 

 

2. Should I have called time during my exchange with him? I definitely could not (and didn't think twice about) sending the runner back, since I never called time.

 

Thanks for your input!

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I would have to think if the scene was big enough to distract the defense and allow a runner to advance because of it, the scene might be worthy of ejection consideration, but I'd have had to have been there.

 

Having said that, if I was struggling and he was probably right I would have given him a little more latitude to comment since he was also the manager. However, if I was having a good game and he wanted to pop off about a pitch I'd have lit him up (but I can be a red ass).

 

A simple "get in the box, let's go" would be sufficient.  I suppose if you really wanted to put the screws to him you could send the runner back (again, I can be a red ass), but I'd probably just let it go since you really don't have a rule to back you up unless you want to say you had time.  The defense needs to pay attention to the action on the field, not to a discussion between a batter & umpire.

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As per this board and personal experience, nothing good will come in engaging a player over balls and strikes, specially at this level. I think a good warning should be enough. If he continues, he's gone.

 

Having little experience, I've been in a situation a bit like that one before and ejected the player. Next time, I'll warn first. The result will probably be the same but at least I will be able to say that I tried :)

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I am NOT suggesting that anyone else do this, but, in a recent tournament.....

 

I am working the plate. Team at bat has the bases loaded in the 5th inning (7 inning game) and they are chasing the other team's two run lead.

 

Pitch comes in. Batter, who is already hanging over the plate a bit, leans his elbow down into the pitch and gets hit. I immediately call "Time!" and announce, "We're staying right HERE and the pitch is a STRIKE!" (While indicating same.)

 

Head coach comes trotting down from 3rd base to inquire about the call. I inform him that his batter leaned into the pitch. He says, "I saw that, John, but you haven't been calling that inside pitch the whole game." I looked him in the eye and said, "Yes I have, Tom."

 

He returned to the 3B coaches box without further comment.

 

JM

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would say that you were fine up to the "control" comment. Here's what I would then have done:

 

I would have called time and the mask would have come off, taken a small side step towards him,  and I would have sternly warned him that you were not going to listen to any more of that." He's argued balls and strikes, and now he is questioning my integrity a second time for an error of observation on behalf of his team. They dropped the "ball" sort of speak by paying attention to his nonsense rather than paying attention to the game. R2 stealing 3rd is on them, not me. After I warned the batter about not listening to any more of that, I'd side step back to my position behind the catcher, and start putting my mask on. If he says something smart in retort, "You're Gone!". If he goes back into the box and behaves, then I know I've drawn the line in the sand and he knows how far he can go. Anything remotely close in a secondary retort after play recommences, he would be ejected.

 

Umpires don't eject people. Players and managers eject themselves.

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I don't know about you Manny, but I certainly eject people...LOL.   And I don't have any slack for adult league wanna be players. I have no problem telling them to shut their yaps and get in the box. They get one chance or they can leave. Adult league games are difficult enough to control as it is, but if you let the players run the show it will soon become a very uncomfortable situation.

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Don't get me wrong. Maintaining control is paramount, but when I came back from umpire school, I set the hook faster than Secretary won the Kentucky Derby. I learned a valuable lesson from those days: control does not equal ejections. Control equals respect, firmness, poise, some talking, and knowing its okay to walk away, or turn the other cheek. I'm not a saying what works for you is wrong. I'm just saying that I've learned to be a little more patient. But there is a point when enough is enough.

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Don't get me wrong. Maintaining control is paramount, but when I came back from umpire school, I set the hook faster than Secretary won the Kentucky Derby. I learned a valuable lesson from those days: control does not equal ejections. Control equals respect, firmness, poise, some talking, and knowing its okay to walk away, or turn the other cheek. I'm not a saying what works for you is wrong. I'm just saying that I've learned to be a little more patient. But there is a point when enough is enough.

I agree that you can't be the redass that school teaches you to be when working amateur ranks. There are many things you can do to prevent situations from spiraling out of control and resulting in an ejection. But there are also certain things that will get you gone, no questions. Counting, drawing lines, direct belittling of the official are a few. An excited utterance can get you  gone in certain circumstances.

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When players and/or coaches start saying things like that I have started asking them " Are you saying I'm cheating?" More times then not the conversation ends there.

Although I like this, isn't the phrase "are you saying I'm cheating" considered baiting? Just asking.

Would the statement "if you are even going to try to "infer" that I am cheating" then I am going to have to eject (toss, dump, dismiss, etc.etc.) immediately.

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When players and/or coaches start saying things like that I have started asking them " Are you saying I'm cheating?" More times then not the conversation ends there.

Although I like this, isn't the phrase "are you saying I'm cheating" considered baiting? Just asking.

Would the statement "if you are even going to try to "infer" that I am cheating" then I am going to have to eject (toss, dump, dismiss, etc.etc.) immediately.

 

I not baiting at all. I say this because it makes them think before they speak. 

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Don't get me wrong. Maintaining control is paramount, but when I came back from umpire school, I set the hook faster than Secretary won the Kentucky Derby. I learned a valuable lesson from those days: control does not equal ejections. Control equals respect, firmness, poise, some talking, and knowing its okay to walk away, or turn the other cheek. I'm not a saying what works for you is wrong. I'm just saying that I've learned to be a little more patient. But there is a point when enough is enough.

I agree that you can't be the redass that school teaches you to be when working amateur ranks. There are many things you can do to prevent situations from spiraling out of control and resulting in an ejection. But there are also certain things that will get you gone, no questions. Counting, drawing lines, direct belittling of the official are a few. An excited utterance can get you  gone in certain circumstances.

 

What would you consider direct belittling of the official?  I run across coaches that like to make comments to me but make it sound like they are talking to their player.  I had another coach who didn't like how I waited to call foul ball until the ball game to a stop since it wasn't touched by anyone (and he didn't like the call since it was just outside the line in my judgment) so he decided to "show me how to do it" from the 3rd base coach box which made me feel like he was showing me up.  What signs, signals, or intuition do you go by that lets you know that it's time to shut these coaches up?  I know that might sound like a silly question, and normally I don't have problems with people, but I'm getting to the point where umpiring for some of these rec ball daddy coaches is pissing me off.

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Don't get me wrong. Maintaining control is paramount, but when I came back from umpire school, I set the hook faster than Secretary won the Kentucky Derby. I learned a valuable lesson from those days: control does not equal ejections. Control equals respect, firmness, poise, some talking, and knowing its okay to walk away, or turn the other cheek. I'm not a saying what works for you is wrong. I'm just saying that I've learned to be a little more patient. But there is a point when enough is enough.

I agree that you can't be the redass that school teaches you to be when working amateur ranks. There are many things you can do to prevent situations from spiraling out of control and resulting in an ejection. But there are also certain things that will get you gone, no questions. Counting, drawing lines, direct belittling of the official are a few. An excited utterance can get you  gone in certain circumstances.

 

What would you consider direct belittling of the official?  I run across coaches that like to make comments to me but make it sound like they are talking to their player.  I had another coach who didn't like how I waited to call foul ball until the ball game to a stop since it wasn't touched by anyone (and he didn't like the call since it was just outside the line in my judgment) so he decided to "show me how to do it" from the 3rd base coach box which made me feel like he was showing me up.  What signs, signals, or intuition do you go by that lets you know that it's time to shut these coaches up?  I know that might sound like a silly question, and normally I don't have problems with people, but I'm getting to the point where umpiring for some of these rec ball daddy coaches is pissing me off.

 

Start from You suck and go from there. That gets no warning. 

The talking to their player gambit will get you,"That's enough!" When they say they are just talking to their player, repeat the that's enough.  When the coach tries to make calls for you, safe/out, fair/foul, tell him you will make the calls, you don't need his help. The first time he yells balk, shut him down. Balk is a word reserved for umpires. 

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