Balk or Game Ender?

[mstaylor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSEXsqnNL5U&feature=youtu.be

[bam]

We had a video like this last year that I thought was definitely was a balk, but I was just about the only one.  The consensus was that it was a good move.

 

This one looks the same as that one.  So I still think it's a balk. 

 

So who is changing their position?

[JHSump]

Well, you can fake to 2B in all rulesets.

 

There was no fake tag (obstruction in some rulesets).

 

Good acting is not illegal, in any ruleset.

 

I say, game ender.

[mstaylor]

The reason I ask is on another board a pretty experienced guy, and a friend, says the knee pop is a balk. I think no, he can do  a whole pitching motion and just keep going. To do that you have to move the lead leg. I agree there is a knee pop balk, just not this. 

[JHSump]

I don't see a balk.  You have to lift your feet, both free and pivot, to throw to 2B.  I don't see the motion he used as being anything other than a faked pick at 2B.  It does not look to me like he makes a move that I would consider committing him to a pitch to the plate.  Now if you lifted his front heel, placed it back down, and paused --- yeah, I would call that a balk.  But he doesn't do that here.  It's a continuous motion as part of a move toward 2B, in my opinion.

[scrounge]

game over

[mstaylor]

I agree, just wanted other opinions.What are you seeing Bam?

[maven]

Balk. Free foot steps toward home before the spin.

The move can be done legally, since a feint to 2B is legal.

[JHSump]

It's very subtle but I think I can see the argument that this is a balk.

 

I did some pitching in HS and college.  I always used this inside spin move on picks at 2B.  Just now I stood up in my living room, got in the set position, and let my muscle memory take over on a simulated pick at 2B.  My first move was to lift my pivot foot heal (right foot since I'm RH, like the pitcher in the video).  Actually I found my self lifting my pivot foot heal and then initiating the spin by pushing up and back (toward 2B) using my left foot --- I kept my left foot on the ground and used it to push back and up, initiating the spin.

 

I actually can't get myself to starting a spin by lifting my front foot first.

 

So, bottom line: can you see his pivot heal (right heal) lift first?  I can't tell given the angle and resolution in the video.

[BalkHawk]

The very subtle initial step is not gaining distance and direction to the base to which he is making a play (feint). Balk, subsequent ejection.

 

To do this legally he should make the stutter step with his pivot foot, then step toward 2B.

[bam]

I'm with maven.  I think that front foot moves forward before the turn to 2d, just like last year's video. 

 

That little hitch at the beginning of the video caught my attention, but I would let that go (I think - who knows what we would do in any set of circumstances), but I just can't see that move to 2d being legal.  Most disagree.  As you can imagine, I've been disagreed with before. 

[Richvee]

I tried watching this frame by frame. The free foot does not move forward, but the knee of the free foot bends (or buckles), then the pivot foot spins. The first time his free foot leaves the ground it is towards 2B. I guess the knee buckle is a balk, but I needed freeze frame by frame to see it. Certainly I'm not going to see that live.  Even frame by frame, I don't see a first step from the free foot gaining distance towards home. 

[UmpJM]

On video, it's a balk because of the initial "free leg" movement.

 

Doubt I'd "see" it in real time.

 

JM

[mstaylor]

I guess I just am not seeing it

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[BalkHawk]

You have to look waaay down in to the SH*#ty hole full of sticks to "see" this balk, on this game-ending pickoff.

The runner was foolish enough to try to advance without knowing where the ball was. It certainly wasn't because he was deceived by the illegal jab step.

If only calling balks were a sport... (sad face)

[JHSump]

I would not catch --- or call this a balk --- in real time at any level I do.

[noumpere]

We had a video like this last year that I thought was definitely was a balk, but I was just about the only one.  The consensus was that it was a good move.

 

This one looks the same as that one.  So I still think it's a balk. 

 

So who is changing their position?

No one else needs to change their position because its not a balk. 

 

For HS you could just check the case book 6-2-4 Situation E, and its the same in all the codes.

 

And obviously Im talking about the play / fake itself not whether the knee moved first etc.

[johnnyg08]

There is a knee pop there.  I could see a balk being called.  

[UmpJM]

noumpere,

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that the feint to 2B was a balk.

 

JM

[Thunderheads]

I really doubt that any of us .....without knowing this was coming would call this in real time as it happens .......

 

I love the reaction of the batter, LOL!

[noumpere]

noumpere,

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that the feint to 2B was a balk.

 

JM

Oh then nevermind

[johnnyg08]

 

noumpere,

 

I don't think anyone has suggested that the feint to 2B was a balk.

 

JM

Oh then nevermind

 

 

 

The last few years I've made a strong effort to watch for the knee pop at higher levels of baseball.  

 

The guys who can do it, get away with it because it happens really fast.  By the time you realize what happened, the runner is picked off of first base.

 

I've never seen the leg pop on a pickoff at 2B until this sitch.

[stl_ump]

And the short stop did a nice job of selling it as well!

[HeadHunterLA]

Game ender, Miller time.

[BalkHawk]

I really doubt that any of us .....without knowing this was coming would call this in real time as it happens ......!

psh