An Old Trick.... a New Balk?

[SnareDrum]

Then maybe there will be some sort of "official announcement" for MLB, but I'd be reluctant to enforce it in my USSSA and City Leagues unless I have something in print. We'll see where it goes.

[Called3rdStrike]

PBUC and the umpire school are still saying its legal til they here otherwise. As of right now theyre teaching it as a legal move.

[Jocko]

Watching the Caribbean World Series. Dominican F1 just did the 3rd-to1st move. Announcers touched on MLB ruling it a balk for the upcoming season.

[Richvee]

Then maybe there will be some sort of "official announcement" for MLB, but I'd be reluctant to enforce it in my USSSA and City Leagues unless I have something in print. We'll see where it goes.

Exactly why I think, at least early in the youth travel season, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring this up at the pregame. Better to remind everybody of the new rule, then inevitably hear complaints the 1st time you call it.

[semper_fi_72]

Then maybe there will be some sort of "official announcement" for MLB, but I'd be reluctant to enforce it in my USSSA and City Leagues unless I have something in print. We'll see where it goes.

Exactly why I think, at least early in the youth travel season, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring this up at the pregame. Better to remind everybody of the new rule, then inevitably hear complaints the 1st time you call it.

We started calling it yesterday in Adult Rec Ball.

We addressed it at plate meeting to ensure they knew it was being enforced.

Both managers knew what we were talking about and had heard of the rule change.

We advised we would be enforcing the new rule and there was no argument.

During the 2nd game of the day, I was on the plate.

F1 steps to 3B and does not throw.

That's a Balk.

R3 scores, R1 becomes R2.

Not a single peep from the bench, F1 or anyone else.

Funny thing was, I called it without hesitation like it had been a Balk for a long time.

It was automatic and without hesitation.

[James Walker]

Any new news on this?

[SnareDrum]

Any new news on this?

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Not much beyond what's already been posted. It looks like it's been officially approved for OBR 2013, but not yet published, and there's been no real "press release" either. 

[JaxRolo]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21620796/the-faketothird-throwtofirst-pickoff-move-is-now-a-balk

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25558013&c_id=mlb&topic_id=vtp_hot_stove

[SnareDrum]

Thanks Jax!! 

[James Walker]

Just for clarification, F1 can still fake to third, but can't throw to second or first?

[Richvee]

Just for clarification, F1 can still fake to third, but can't throw to second or first?

No.   F1 will not be allowed to fake to 3rd from the rubber. Just like 1st. 

[CricketChapman]

I was looking for additional information on this and came across the 2013 Georgia USSSA rulebook; I don't live in Georgia, but I figured I'd take a look.  Here's what I found:

 

7.08.E.4  "It is a balk when...With runners on first (1st) and third (3rd) bases, the pitcher steps toward third (3rd) base and does not throw then seeing the runner on first (1st) base start for second (2nd) base, turn and step toward and throw to first (1st) base." 

 

This is butchered confusion; it seems to keep the fake n' fake legal as a pitcher's "reset" tactic.  So, you can still fake to third, and turn toward first, but you cannot throw the ball.

Most of the Travel games I umpire are USSSA, so I am hoping the national organization did not adopt this rendition.


UPDATE:  It appears USSSA has simplified its rulebook this year (I just discovered their 2013 edition through a missing link):  former rules included under Chapter 7 have disappeared.  Indeed, it is noted in the Foreword that the book has been simplified - it looks as if they are just going to use whatever OBR goes with.

[James Walker]

That's what my current Dixie rule book has. I can't find this new rule in print any where, so i guess we will just go by whats in that book till I find a new copy of OBR.

[Richvee]

I was looking for additional information on this and came across the 2013 Georgia USSSA rulebook; I don't live in Georgia, but I figured I'd take a look.  Here's what I found:

 

7.08.E.4  "It is a balk when...With runners on first (1st) and third (3rd) bases, the pitcher steps toward third (3rd) base and does not throw then seeing the runner on first (1st) base start for second (2nd) base, turn and step toward and throw to first (1st) base." 

 

This is butchered confusion; it seems to keep the fake n' fake legal as a pitcher's "reset" tactic.  So, you can still fake to third, and turn toward first, but you cannot throw the ball.

Most of the Travel games I umpire are USSSA, so I am hoping the national organization did not adopt this rendition.

UPDATE:  It appears USSSA has simplified its rulebook this year (I just discovered their 2013 edition through a missing link):  former rules included under Chapter 7 have disappeared.  Indeed, it is noted in the Foreword that the book has been simplified - it looks as if they are just going to use whatever OBR goes with.

Seriously? Who thinks this stuff up? 

So, R3, R1. F1 steps and fakes a throw to 3rd...legal. R1 can now dance around 15 feet off 1st base, blow kisses to his girlfriend behind the dugout, chat it up with F3,  because F1 can't throw over there?   

[SnareDrum]

Beckerd's interp from ump school nailed it for me. "A step to third from the rubber will require a throw to third base".

 

If he feints, "that's a balk", and that eliminates the 31 right there. What F1 does after that regarding R1 would seem to be almost irrelevant. It's looking like the language of the rule will eliminate, while on the rubber with R1 & R3, feints to third OR first.

 

[Richvee]

Beckerd's interp from ump school nailed it for me. "A step to third from the rubber will require a throw to third base".

 

If he feints, "that's a balk", and that eliminates the 31 right there. What F1 does after that regarding R1 would seem to be almost irrelevant. It's looking like the language of the rule will eliminate, while on the rubber with R1 & R3, feints to third OR first.

 

Agree for the most part. I'm guessing though it won't matter if runners are on 1st, or 2nd along with 3rd. Just like it doesn't matter if there's runners on 2nd or 3rd along with 1st, you can't feint to 1st no matter what. Feint to 3rd from the rubber is a balk... Period....That's the way I think it should read.  

[LMSANS]

Ok, how does this one come out? R1,R3 F1 feints to third and the throws the ball past F3, a)ball stays in play, b) ball goes into dbt? Larry Sansevere Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CricketChapman]

Ok, how does this one come out? R1,R3 F1 feints to third and the throws the ball past F3, a)ball stays in play, b) ball goes into dbt? Larry Sansevere Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I am assuming you are describing a third-to-first manuever.  Well, balk for feint to third.  In FED, immediate dead ball; R1 goes to 2B and R3 scores.

In OBR, you probably want to withhold calling "Time" until play is over.  If ball goes into d.b.t., two bases from time of throw - R1 goes to 3B, R3 scores; disregard the balk as every baserunner reached the next base safely on the errant throw.

[SnareDrum]

Ok, how does this one come out? R1,R3 F1 feints to third and the throws the ball past F3, a)ball stays in play, b) ball goes into dbt? Larry Sansevere Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I am assuming you are describing a third-to-first manuever.  Well, balk for feint to third.  In FED, immediate dead ball; R1 goes to 2B and R3 scores.

In OBR, you probably want to withhold calling "Time" until play is over.  If ball goes into d.b.t., two bases from time of throw - R1 goes to 3B, R3 scores; disregard the balk as every baserunner reached the next base safely on the errant throw.

--------------------------

The new rule would only apply to OBR, not FED... at least not yet.

 

BUT, in the penalty for a balk, it says that "each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk." So in the instance Larry has above, since the batter didn't advance safely, it would be R1 to 2B and score R3. Right? 

 

If the pitcher steps off the rubber, feints to third and throws it into DBT somewhere, then I would have R1 going to 3B, and R3 scores. 

[JaxRolo]

 

Ok, how does this one come out? R1,R3 F1 feints to third and the throws the ball past F3, a)ball stays in play, b) ball goes into dbt? Larry Sansevere Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I am assuming you are describing a third-to-first manuever.  Well, balk for feint to third.  In FED, immediate dead ball; R1 goes to 2B and R3 scores.

In OBR, you probably want to withhold calling "Time" until play is over.  If ball goes into d.b.t., two bases from time of throw - R1 goes to 3B, R3 scores; disregard the balk as every baserunner reached the next base safely on the errant throw.

--------------------------

The new rule would only apply to OBR, not FED... at least not yet.

 

BUT, in the penalty for a balk, it says that "each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk." So in the instance Larry has above, since the batter didn't advance safely, it would be R1 to 2B and score R3. Right? 

 

If the pitcher steps off the rubber, feints to third and throws it into DBT somewhere, then I would have R1 going to 3B, and R3 scores. 

 

Correct

 

To put it simply:

 

FED awards bases if it goes into DBT

 

OBR - Balk

[noumpere]

 

Ok, how does this one come out? R1,R3 F1 feints to third and the throws the ball past F3, a)ball stays in play, b) ball goes into dbt? Larry Sansevere Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I am assuming you are describing a third-to-first manuever.  Well, balk for feint to third.  In FED, immediate dead ball; R1 goes to 2B and R3 scores.

In OBR, you probably want to withhold calling "Time" until play is over.  If ball goes into d.b.t., two bases from time of throw - R1 goes to 3B, R3 scores; disregard the balk as every baserunner reached the next base safely on the errant throw.

--------------------------

The new rule would only apply to OBR, not FED... at least not yet.

 

BUT, in the penalty for a balk, it says that "each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk." So in the instance Larry has above, since the batter didn't advance safely, it would be R1 to 2B and score R3. Right? 

 

If the pitcher steps off the rubber, feints to third and throws it into DBT somewhere, then I would have R1 going to 3B, and R3 scores. 

Once F1 feints to third, the ball will become dead.  You can only leave the ball live on such balks as not stopping before pitching, or not stepping to first when throwing there.  by the very definition of feint there wasnt a throw in the play. 

 

So dead ball and advance the runners.

 

And on your point about "runners and batter advance" that only applies if the batter becomes a runner.  If theres a balk and a throw or pitch where the batter doesnt become a runner  then only the runners need to advance

[BT_Blue]

I am looking forward to getting a hold of the new LL book. Sounds like the 3-1 move will still be legal in 50-70, juniors, seniors, and big league. Wonder what Babe Ruth will do as well.

[cbiesecker]

The new feint to third rule is not in the BR/CR 2013 rule book.  In fact the example play of the 3-1 is still in there as being legal provided its not done in practically the same motion.  I have submitted a feint to third rules question to the Babe Ruth League.  I'll share the response once I get it.

[alan2703]

Great just had first meeting for Jersey high school ball they are not adopting this rule, can not wait till it happens in first high school game and the fans and maybe evena coach yells balk. Then have to tell coach it is a MLB rule not High School in Jersey

[cbiesecker]

Response from the Babe Ruth League:

 

"Our rule books were printed before the MLB instituted this new rule. Therefore, it will not be reflected in our rule books. While leagues can adopt the new rule for local league play, that will be on a per-league basis. The new rule will not be enforced in tournament play for the 2013 season.

The rule will very likely be added to the rule books for the 2014 season."