An Old Trick.... a New Balk?

[Codyw09]

From OBR 2013,

 

A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base and is required to throw (except to second base) because he steps. It is a balk if, with runners on first and third, for the pitcher to step  toward third and does not throw, merely to bluff the

 

runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base.

 

 

It is legal for a pitcher to feint a throw to second base.

[CricketChapman]

Well, USSSA published it a a balk, but I do not like their wording, cause it limits it to a RHP faking to third followed by a fake or throw to first.  I can see the arguments right now.......

As I wrote above, some States seem to have adopted a very poorly written rule.

The USSSA where I live goes by the national book, which enforces the MLB rulebook.

UPDATE:  Since I last check the USSSA rules last week, they have been updated.  USSSA has formally added the rule in a text very similar to what the new OBR will be.  I am guessing this was done to avoid confusion.

[SnareDrum]

I just checked the USSSA 2013, and what I found (page 11, 7.05.D), seems to keep it pretty simple: "It is a balk if the pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to complete the throw; Pitchers may still feint a throw to second."

 

They copied it word for word from OBR 2013, it reads:  "It is a balk if the pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to complete the throw: Pitchers may still feint a throw to second."

 

Neither set says anything that I saw about anything that occurs after the feint. Feint to 3B or 1B (while on rubber) = Balk. That would pretty much kill the play on the spot, though I know some crazy things could occur. It is baseball, after all!

 

That covers USSSA, and Babe Ruth (no change). Has anyone heard of any other OBR based leagues yet?

 

http://www.usssa.com/usssa/usssa-general/2013BBRuleBook.pdf

 

and thanks to stl_ump for locating and posting the OBR Rule Changes (attached) in a nearby thread earlier...

 

2013 rule changes.pdf

[UMP45]

I was told PONY will also call it.

[SnareDrum]

I just checked the USSSA 2013, and what I found (page 11, 7.05.D), seems to keep it pretty simple: "It is a balk if the pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to complete the throw; Pitchers may still feint a throw to second."

 

They copied it word for word from OBR 2013, it reads:  "It is a balk if the pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to complete the throw: Pitchers may still feint a throw to second."

 

-------------------

Should have typed: "They copied it word for word from OBR 2013, WHICH reads..."   I graded a few papers today, so I'm on a bit of grammar kick.

 

Anyway... short and sweet, and pretty clear.

[cyclonehokiece]

I just checked the USSSA 2013, and what I found (page 11, 7.05.D), seems to keep it pretty simple: "It is a balk if the pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to complete the throw; Pitchers may still feint a throw to second."

 

They copied it word for word from OBR 2013, it reads:  "It is a balk if the pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first or third base and fails to complete the throw: Pitchers may still feint a throw to second."

 

Neither set says anything that I saw about anything that occurs after the feint. Feint to 3B or 1B (while on rubber) = Balk. That would pretty much kill the play on the spot, though I know some crazy things could occur. It is baseball, after all!

 

That covers USSSA, and Babe Ruth (no change). Has anyone heard of any other OBR based leagues yet?

 

http://www.usssa.com/usssa/usssa-general/2013BBRuleBook.pdf

 

and thanks to stl_ump for locating and posting the OBR Rule Changes (attached) in a nearby thread earlier...

 

No they didn't.  From the rules link above, page 12 at the bottom, direct quote:

"7.05.D It is a Balk if a right handed pitcher steps towards third and then throws or feints a throw to first."

Stupid, but when new OBR is published, all feints to third will be balks.  Just going to be a confusing spring.

[SnareDrum]

Thanks cycloneokiece, and yep, it just got very confusing here. If anybody has time, maybe they can help me track this to the rule quote I have up there that says nothing about a RHP.

 

I went to USSSA Baseball / ISTS Sports Statistics, then clicked on 2013 Baseball Bylaws and Rules - UPDATED 2/11/2013 . The page it took me to led me to that quote. (but yeah, bottom of 12, not 11, but still 7.05.D). Strangely, when I clicked the link I provided earlier, it mentioned the RHP, but the 2/11 link I'm looking at now does not.  The 2013 rules link I clicked on via USSSA Baseball - Rules and Bylaws at  OFFICIAL USSSA BASEBALL NATIONAL BY-LAWS & RULES (actually same link) also omits the RHP.

 

To add to it, all of the cover pages list January 12th as the Edition Date. It's almost as if they printed the wrong words and then fixed it... today. Anybody else seeing an RHP "exception"? All I need is a coach saying that he "can show me in the rule book,"

 

 

[cyclonehokiece]

Thanks cycloneokiece, and yep, it just got very confusing here. If anybody has time, maybe they can help me track this to the rule quote I have up there that says nothing about a RHP.

 

I went to USSSA Baseball / ISTS Sports Statistics, then clicked on 2013 Baseball Bylaws and Rules - UPDATED 2/11/2013 . The page it took me to led me to that quote. (but yeah, bottom of 12, not 11, but still 7.05.D). Strangely, when I clicked the link I provided earlier, it mentioned the RHP, but the 2/11 link I'm looking at now does not.  The 2013 rules link I clicked on via USSSA Baseball - Rules and Bylaws at  OFFICIAL USSSA BASEBALL NATIONAL BY-LAWS & RULES (actually same link) also omits the RHP.

 

To add to it, all of the cover pages list January 12th as the Edition Date. It's almost as if they printed the wrong words and then fixed it... today. Anybody else seeing an RHP "exception"? All I need is a coach saying that he "can show me in the rule book,"

Finally an update follow the link and click on the link on the page.  I know it says 2011 but it is the 2013 rulebook.

http://www.usssabaseball.org/2011_rules.htm

[jjb]

We call OBR here, and have gotten in a bit of a quandry. Our season starts in 2 weeks, but the rule won't be posted in the books until April. We (on the Protest Committee) don't want to have an Umpire call it and the Protesting Coach say "show me". On the other hand, we don't want to not call it and have a coach (after it's posted) staple the rule to our collective foreheads.

 

So we've got no choice but change in mid-stream: we'll not call it until it's posted. Then, we'll send out an email to the league directors, and (hopefully) mention it at the plate meeting.

[BalkHawk]

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130303&content_id=42220730&notebook_id=42222598&vkey=notebook_tb&c_id=tb

[Ring 'em Up]

hi everyone..

 

my son told me that a pitcher was balked at his HS game last night  with runners @ 1st & 3rd. F1 (RHP) at the set position, lifted his non-pivot foot, extended to third, feinted,  (my son said F1 was disengaged from the plate a full step down the mound), and turned and feinted to first... "BALK".

 

 

ron-

[SnareDrum]

hi everyone..

 

my son told me that a pitcher was balked at his HS game last night  with runners @ 1st & 3rd. F1 (RHP) at the set position, lifted his non-pivot foot, extended to third, feinted,  (my son said F1 was disengaged from the plate a full step down the mound), and turned and feinted to first... "BALK".

 

 

ron-

--------------------------------

Uh-oh! First of all, the feint to third (which includes the "31 move") is not a balk in HS. It's only a balk in the pros and leagues that use OBR (unless they choose not to this year like Babe Ruth).  FED may make the change next year or year after, but this year, not a balk.

[clawdad]

hi everyone..

 

my son told me that a pitcher was balked at his HS game last night  with runners @ 1st & 3rd. F1 (RHP) at the set position, lifted his non-pivot foot, extended to third, feinted,  (my son said F1 was disengaged from the plate a full step down the mound), and turned and feinted to first... "BALK".

 

 

ron-

--------------------------------

Uh-oh! First of all, the feint to third (which includes the "31 move") is not a balk in HS. It's only a balk in the pros and leagues that use OBR (unless they choose not to this year like Babe Ruth).  FED may make the change next year or year after, but this year, not a balk.

I am just wondering - was the balk for the feint to 3rd, or would OBR 8.05 (g) apply?

 

it is a balk when..."The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate"

 

Or since it was HS - FED 6-2-5: (similar wording to OBR, just reversed) "It is also a balk...while he is not touching the pitcher's plate, makes any movement naturally associated with his pitch."

 

or is coming set not "a motion naturally associated with the pitch"?

[noumpere]

If the pitcher came set not on the rubber that's a balk way before the feint to third.

 

Same if he disengaged to the front of the rubber and not to the back.

 

But I'm not sure either of those things is what was being discussed.

[Ring 'em Up]

my son did not hear the discussion between the coach and umpire, so he's not sure wither or not the balk came from the feint to first or third, but he did say the umpire called balk 'just after' the feint to 1st

ron-.

[alex7]

That umpire...clearly not a member of the UE.