empty-glove tag

[BalkHawk]

on a tag play:

you got-

a) an empty-glove tag with ball secure and firm in hand,

B) a bare-handed tag with ball secure and firm in glove;

what do you got?

[BalkHawk]

that's meant to be b ) not B). I don't typically use the faces.

[Jocko]

Given the brevity of the OP, I got a big fat nothing.

[UMP45]

moto, tagging a player is different then tagging a base.

[boyinr]

A Safe signal timed with "No tag, no tag" just to let everyone know to play on.

[Umpire in Chief]

I'll back this up.

If tagging a base, as long as the fielder has secure possession of the ball the tag is good.

If tagging a runner the fielder needs to tag the runner with the ball. It can be secured in either his meat hand or glove. But if he tags the runner with an empty glove while holding the ball in his meat hand (or visa versa) it's nothing.

[Dragon29]

. . . . It can be secured in either his meat hand or glove. . . .

meat hand? That's a new one!

[Guest Jeff b]

Ball in bare hand. Empty glove hand tags base for a force out. Is batter runner out?

[JaxRolo]

Ball in bare hand. Empty glove hand tags base for a force out. Is batter runner out?

Yes

[Jocko]

Ball in bare hand. Empty glove hand tags base for a force out. Is batter runner out?

Absolutely. If the fielder has posession of the ball and the glove is not detatched. He can touch the base with his foot, elbow, glove, head, butt, anything that touches the bag as long as he has posession of the ball.

[nwsquid]

To push this thread a little further...how far up the hand would you presumably allow a runner to be tagged and get an out. Wrist...forearm...elbow? Does that change on a cloud of dust play vs a swipe/run by tag?

[Umpy]

Ball in bare hand. Empty glove hand tags base for a force out. Is batter runner out?

I had someone try to argue for this a few weeks ago. We were working 3-man and the other umps decided we needed to get together to discuss. I tried to wave them off but they came to me for a huddle. I was very embarrassed. On breaking of the huddle the PU re-signaled my out :(

[JamesC]

To push this thread a little further...how far up the hand would you presumably allow a runner to be tagged and get an out. Wrist...forearm...elbow? Does that change on a cloud of dust play vs a swipe/run by tag?

I guess I don't understand the question here. It really doesn't matter how far up the hand he tags him, as long as he is not occupying a base. There are no restrictions as to where a tag can be applied. So as long as he isn't on a base, they can tag him anywhere and get him out.

[mstaylor]

I think he means how far up the fielder's arm. I would say the hand only, that's where the ball is. Would you call him out if he tagged him with his glove forearm?

[Jocko]

I think he means how far up the fielder's arm. I would say the hand only, that's where the ball is. Would you call him out if he tagged him with his glove forearm?

I read it differently. I thought he was tlking about how far up the RUNNER'S arm.

[nwsquid]

I read it differently. I thought he was tlking about how far up the RUNNER'S arm.

Good night sally. Who cares what body part of the runner is touched? Sorry for the confusion. Yes, mstaylor, fielder's body part. Assuming the ball is in the correct hand, I am probably giving them an out if they tag the runner with the forearm (but only the 1/2 far from the elbow). I'm fairly certain I have zero rules to hang my hat on, it just seems like the expected call and least dung-ridden end of the stick.

Correctly, or incorrectly the only correlation I can come up with is a bull-dog w/no tag at home plate. In which there is no tag applied, but the catcher holds onto the ball, and tradition dictates to bang the out. Admittedly apples to oranges, but there it is.

[mstaylor]

A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the

ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his

hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or

glove.

To me he has to make the tag with hand or glove, anything above the wrist is a miss.

[Jocko]

I read it differently. I thought he was tlking about how far up the RUNNER'S arm.

Good night sally. Who cares what body part of the runner is touched? Sorry for the confusion. Yes, mstaylor, fielder's body part. Assuming the ball is in the correct hand, I am probably giving them an out if they tag the runner with the forearm (but only the 1/2 far from the elbow). I'm fairly certain I have zero rules to hang my hat on, it just seems like the expected call and least dung-ridden end of the stick.

Correctly, or incorrectly the only correlation I can come up with is a bull-dog w/no tag at home plate. In which there is no tag applied, but the catcher holds onto the ball, and tradition dictates to bang the out. Admittedly apples to oranges, but there it is.

agree, who cares on the runner. Agree with trucking the catcher w/o tagging I'm banging the out. Otherwise, I say a "normal" tag play has to contact glove or ball to runner's person.

[Rich Ives]

. . . . It can be secured in either his meat hand or glove. . . .

meat hand? That's a new one!

Really? You that young and/or isolated?

[JaxRolo]

A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the

ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his

hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or

glove.

To me he has to make the tag with hand or glove, anything above the wrist is a miss.

Can you elaborate Mike? I thought a fielder could tag the base with his nose if the wanted to as long as he had secure posession of the ball.

[noumpere]

Can you elaborate Mike? I thought a fielder could tag the base with his nose if the wanted to as long as he had secure posession of the ball.

Follow along because this part of this discussion is about tagging the runner not about tagging the base so the tag must be made with the hand or the glove or the ball and not with the nose.

And to whoever asked it originally Im giving all the benefit to the defense on this and only not calling it a tag if its clear that the hand never touched the runner and Im not going to be a plumber and go looking for that s***.

[mstaylor]

Yes you can tag the base with anything, a runner has to ba tagged with the glove or hand the ball is in.

[JaxRolo]

Can you elaborate Mike? I thought a fielder could tag the base with his nose if the wanted to as long as he had secure posession of the ball.

Follow along because this part of this discussion is about tagging the runner not about tagging the base so the tag must be made with the hand or the glove or the ball and not with the nose.

And to whoever asked it originally Im giving all the benefit to the defense on this and only not calling it a tag if its clear that the hand never touched the runner and Im not going to be a plumber and go looking for that s***.

My Bad! My sincere apologies to all involved for not being able to follow along a simple thread.

[Jocko]

TIGHTEN UP NEXT TIME!!! :P

[mstaylor]

Jaxm I can't type much slower, my wife will take computer away. :hi5:

[grayhawk]

Ball in bare hand. Empty glove hand tags base for a force out. Is batter runner out?

I had someone try to argue for this a few weeks ago. We were working 3-man and the other umps decided we needed to get together to discuss. I tried to wave them off but they came to me for a huddle. I was very embarrassed. On breaking of the huddle the PU re-signaled my out

This seems odd. Why would the other members of your crew be involved at all? If a coach starts towards one of my partners after a call I made, I'm going to head him off and not let that happen. Of course, if he does question PU or the other base umpire, I would hope they would just direct him to you, but that's not something you can control.