3B Feet In Fair Territory

[BlueKen]

I've had coaches tell me that when the F5 holds the runner, he can't straddle the bag with his right foot in foul territory. One coach even told me it was a balk.

Asked a senior umpire in our league, and he said it's not a balk. But the feet do have to be in fair territory.

The only rule I see in MLB rulebook is that when the ball is put in play, the fielder's have to be in fair territory. So does the F5 have to have both feet in fair territory on every pitch or only when the ball is put in play?

Thanks.

[Scuzzyfeller]

I've had coaches tell me that when the F5 holds the runner, he can't straddle the bag with his right foot in foul territory. One coach even told me it was a balk.

Asked a senior umpire in our league, and he said it's not a balk. But the feet do have to be in fair territory.

The only rule I see in MLB rulebook is that when the ball is put in play, the fielder's have to be in fair territory. So does the F5 have to have both feet in fair territory on every pitch or only when the ball is put in play?

Thanks.

Technically speaking; all fielders except for the catcher must be completely in fair territory at TIME OF PITCH.

You'll notice that all 1B will kick into fair territory at the time of the pitch...thus making themselves LEGAL.

3B holding a runner as a 1B would? Piss poor coaching!

I've seen it...I've warned the fielder of it...had "piss poor" coach ask "why"?

So YES...it is a balk....it's a fielder's balk....

Scuzz

[calablue]

There are some other threads on here that deal with this. I know because I started one of them. The answer is that he is required to be in fair territory at the time of the pitch. The definition of being in fair territory varies depending on which rule set you are using.

( NCAA (and I believe H/S) also only requires one foot to be in fair on fair ground). Either way, it is not a balk. It is a situation that you leave alone unless it is brought to your attention and complained about by one of coaches, in which case it is a warning of "Don't do that." After which, if the player continues to do it you could give him his EJ slip.

[BlueKen]

OBR 2.00 the definition for a balk is "A balk is an illegal act by the pitcher with a runner or runners on base, entitling all runners to advance one base." So how can an act by a fielder be a balk?

Can you site the OBR reference for a fielder's balk please?

OBR Rule 4.03 says "When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory."

Where in OBR does it say they have to be in fair territory on every pitch?

I don't doubt it's true, but would like to know the rule.

Thanks again.

[calablue]

Technically speaking; all fielders except for the catcher must be completely in fair territory at TIME OF PITCH.

You'll notice that all 1B will kick into fair territory at the time of the pitch...thus making themselves LEGAL.

3B holding a runner as a 1B would? Piss poor coaching!

I've seen it...I've warned the fielder of it...had "piss poor" coach ask "why"?

So YES...it is a balk....it's a fielder's balk....

Scuzz

There is no such thing as a fielders balk. Please cite the rule that says this is a fielders balk.

[calablue]

See the thread " F3or F5 foot in foul territory' ( page 3 of RULES thread)

[Scuzzyfeller]

See the thread " F3or F5 foot in foul territory' ( page 3 of RULES thread)

Hello Scuzz?

SW Airlines calling....

Looking to get away?

*********************************

Yup...[rim shot...]

Scuzz

[semper_fi_72]

OBR 2.00 the definition for a balk is "A balk is an illegal act by the pitcher with a runner or runners on base, entitling all runners to advance one base." So how can an act by a fielder be a balk?

Can you site the OBR reference for a fielder's balk please?

OBR Rule 4.03 says "When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory."

Where in OBR does it say they have to be in fair territory on every pitch?

I don't doubt it's true, but would like to know the rule.

Thanks again.

You answered your own question and don't even realize it!!!!!!

See what I highlighted above.

Is not during the game the same as on every pitch?

[ukce1861]

You answered your own question and don't even realize it!!!!!!

See what I highlighted above.

Is not during the game the same as on every pitch?

I think the "during the game" refers to "when the ball is put in play". I think the way it's intended to be read is "When the ball is put in play at the start of a game or when the ball is put in play during a game".

If you took "during the game" separate from "when the ball is put in play" wouldn't it mean that F2 is the only player allowed in foul territory at any time?

[Umpire in Chief]

No problem Scuzz.

IMO it's an ignore it until it is brought to your attention, then comes the don't do that and more than likely a few more don't do thats. If he is flat out refusing he'd have to go.

[Scuzzyfeller]

No problem Scuzz.

IMO it's an ignore it until it is brought to your attention, then comes the don't do that and more than likely a few more don't do thats. If he is flat out refusing he'd have to go.

I have never made the call....

I HAVE seen it called....

I have had 3B coaches want to sell it to me....

I still think it's PISS POOR coaching for a 3B to "hold" a runner...

Better coaching just signals a play in anyway....

LOVE the discussion on it...and I don't mind taking some slaps....

My turn as the piñata....

Best to all!

Scuzz

[Stan W.]

Just to put this to bed....

NFHS-1-1-4 except the catcher, all fielders must be in fair territory at the TOP. A fielder is in fair ground of he has one foot in fair territory...

NCAA 5-4c except the catcher, all fielders must be in fair territory when the ball is put in play. A fielder is in fair ground of he has one foot in fair territory...

OBR 4.03 except the catcher, all fielders must be in fair territory when the ball is put in play.

Off interp- 161-243 PBUC manual-A fielder is in fair ground of he has both feet in fair territory...

Off interp-162-243 PBUC manual- Umpire should not insist a fielder have both feet in fair terrritory unless one team complains, but thereafter the umpire will require fielders to have both feet in fair ground.

[Guest]

Under OBR, since that is all I deal with:

Whoever thinks that this action is worthy of a balk call should be slapped.

Read 4.03 again. The penalty of "balk" applies only to section a, and no one calls that anyway. Sections B and C, the latter of which is pertinent to this thread, list no penalty.

Whoever has called a balk for this action occurring in a game should be slapped twice, then subjected to the mocking of all fellow umpires for an indefinite amount of time.

To take what Stan has said one little bit further, the MLBUM indicates that once an umpire has decided (or been forced to by the complaints of candy ass coaches) to enforce this rule to the letter, if the fielder refuses to comply, as Warren suggests, goodbye.

[catoblue]

Which comes back to the question in OBR... Where does it say that all defensive players except F2 must be in fair territory at TOP? 4.03 says they must be there when the ball is put in play - so to me, that means once the ball is legally in play, F3 can stand next to the dugout if he wants.

[Rich Ives]

Which comes back to the question in OBR... Where does it say that all defensive players except F2 must be in fair territory at TOP? 4.03 says they must be there when the ball is put in play - so to me, that means once the ball is legally in play, F3 can stand next to the dugout if he wants.

It doesn't.

They must be.

That's why the instruction on F3 with a foot foul.

Another "wrong" rule: By rule on an IBB the catcher can't leave the box until the pitch is released. In actuality he can leave as soon as the pitcher starts his motion.

The rules don't always say what they mean.

Some are getting corrected like the running out of the baseline and a batted ball hitting a batter in the batter's box.

Some haven't been fixed yet.

Some may never get fixed.

[ukce1861]

Some may never get fixed.

Why?

I know that sounds sarcastic, but that's a legitimate question - I realize you (or anyone else) probably can't answer it, but I really don't understand why these things don't get fixed. I'm sure we're not having revolutionary, never-before-considered, conversations here. Why don't they just fix the problems?

[noumpere]

Why?

I know that sounds sarcastic, but that's a legitimate question - I realize you (or anyone else) probably can't answer it, but I really don't understand why these things don't get fixed. I'm sure we're not having revolutionary, never-before-considered, conversations here. Why don't they just fix the problems?

Because it doesn't come up in MLB.

[Guest]

Because it doesn't come up in MLB.

Exactly.

Society is in a reactive phase, not a proactive phase.

The rules committee only sees issues with the rules when something happens...there isn't someone who leafs through the book or monitors forums like this and goes, hey, someone found a problem here that we should address.

[spiritumpa]

tell the coach(rat) to finish reading the rule book--then ask him if he want you to inforce the rule that the 3rd base has to stay in the coaches box

[yawetag]

The rules committee only sees issues with the rules when something happens...there isn't someone who leafs through the book or monitors forums like this and goes, hey, someone found a problem here that we should address.

So there's a committee responsible for ensuring the rules are consistent and fair for the game, yet there isn't someone on the committee that reads the book they're entitled to produce?

I don't doubt it. :cheers:

[Rich Ives]

tell the coach(rat) to finish reading the rule book--then ask him if he want you to inforce the rule that the 3rd base has to stay in the coaches box

Heck - there's a lot of novice umpires that think there's a "fielder's balk".

In fact, in FED there IS a "fielder's balk".

1-1-4 says the penalty for not being in fair territory (at least one foot) is an illegal pitch. And an illegal pitch is a balk with runners on base. ergo - a "fielder's balk".

Edited July 23, 2010 by Rich Ives

[Ump29]

Which comes back to the question in OBR... Where does it say that all defensive players except F2 must be in fair territory at TOP? 4.03 says they must be there when the ball is put in play - so to me, that means once the ball is legally in play, F3 can stand next to the dugout if he wants.

Completely true.

[Rich Ives]

Completely true.

Completely - false. That's why this is in the MLBUM:

2.16 FIRST BASEMAN PLAYING IN FOUL TERRITORY

Official Baseball Rule 4.03 provides that when the ball is put in play at the start of or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory. In particular, when holding a runner on first base, the first baseman shall position himself with both feet in fair territory. There is no penalty specified for violation other than the first baseman shall be instructed to keep bothfeet in fair territory if brought to the attention of the umpire, or-if blatant or recurring violationupon immediate direction of the umpire. If a player, after so directed by the umpire, blatantly refuses to comply, the player is subject to ejection.

[UmpTTS43]

Completely - false. That's why this is in the MLBUM:

2.16 FIRST BASEMAN PLAYING IN FOUL TERRITORY

Official Baseball Rule 4.03 provides that when the ball is put in play at the start of or during a game, all fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory. In particular, when holding a runner on first base, the first baseman shall position himself with both feet in fair territory. There is no penalty specified for violation other than the first baseman shall be instructed to keep bothfeet in fair territory if brought to the attention of the umpire, or-if blatant or recurring violationupon immediate direction of the umpire. If a player, after so directed by the umpire, blatantly refuses to comply, the player is subject to ejection.

That's due to whiny rats thinking they know the rules and MLB bowing down concerning this issue. Once the ball is in play, fielders can station themselves in foul territory if they wish. One of the only instances that this would be beneficial is when backing up 1st or 3rd on an appeal play.

[Ros@]

That's due to whiny rats thinking they know the rules and MLB bowing down concerning this issue. Once the ball is in play, fielders can station themselves in foul territory if they wish. One of the only instances that this would be beneficial is when backing up 1st or 3rd on an appeal play.

===============================

UMPTTS43, could you please explain this further to me.

Maybe it is my poor english but I can not follow you were you say "on an appeal play".

:smachhead: