2 man - Tag up play

[Thunderheads]

All ...

Sitch .... r2 and r3, 1 out.

Fly ball to F7....he's in pretty much standard left field territory ...basically behind the shortstop.

I'm thinking logically....that's my catch, my partner has the tag up at 3rd.

Well, ...they appeal the play. I think , ok fine ....the appeal happens, and I'm thinking PU's call. He does nothing. I start thinking "oh no" ....

CRAP:banghead: ..I screwed up. We conference, make the call (correctly) with just a tad of chirp ..but nothing really, then discuss between innings.

Well, ... and I'm sure you guys all know this, ...that tag is MY call? With a fly to left field, PU takes it, I get the tag @ 3rd.

I can see it now, and my partner knows more than I do for sure, but I always like to throw these situations out there to get more flavor.

Is the tag up mine? (BU) or PU in this sitch?

Thanks .....

[th3]

generally, if the RF or LF is moving toward the line, the call s the PU's...from RF straight in/back to RF straight in/back (the V) the call is the BU's...right?

[Thunderheads]

generally, if the RF or LF is moving toward the line, the call s the PU's...from RF straight in/back to RF straight in/back (the V) the call is the BU's...right?

I know, I know ....it was hit to him, maybe a 1/2 step to the LF right side ...I guess it just seems almost too difficult for me to get the tag from C. I know I need to move in toward the mound, etc, ....

And I also know that PU gets LF fly balls ...I just wasn't thinking:shakehead:

[kcfan102]

The way I usually do it makes sense to me, but it may not be the correct the way, but it works. I usually work with the same guy so we have out stuff figured out.

On your sitch, as BU, I would try to line up the catch with R2's tag. By the way the OP sound it was a routine play? In which case you would have the catch/ no catch. If the left fielder had to move to his right (towards foul territory) then PU has both the catch/no catch and the tag up.

I would try to be in a position where I am not straightlined, but can also see R2s tag. PU will line up the catch with the tag on R3 and he has plays into home. You have plays into second and third.

If you're watching the tag on R3, who has the tag on R2? One runner per umpire here. You have R2 and PU has R3. You have fly balls from F7 all the way to F8. If F8 and F7 have to move towards foul territory than PU has the flyball.

That's the way we do it. Someone have a better, easier way?

[UmpJM]

Thunderheads,

In 2-man, the PU has all retouches at 3B and all touches at home and 3B. Regardless of whether he also has responsibility for the catch.

If it's a trouble fair/foul ball going down the RFL with the BU in the middle, a good BU will be ready to "help", but it's still the PU's call on the retouch of 3B on a catch.

JM

[yawetag]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the lack of communication between the umpires.

In any fly ball to the outfield, especially ones like this, someone should be saying "I've got the ball, Jeff!" (or the other way around). The last thing you need is two calls on the same play, and you certainly need someone watching the ball.

[Thunderheads]

UmpJM:

That was what I was discussing with him between innings. I know he has the line on outfield catches, but it was routine, and I was right there in C.

I assumed in my head as I watched the ball go to F7 (ok, ...he's got the tag up at 3, I have the catch and R2 tag up if there is one....)

So ... what is it?? Should it be the PU call on the tag-up appeal? That's also a part of the question? Who has the appeal for the tag-up?

KCfan: Yes, ...we discussed that also ...communication in that sitch

[Fittske24]

With runners on 2nd and 3rd, on any fly ball or line drive to the outfield, the PU is responsible for tag-ups at 3rd and any play at the plate. The base umpire has the tag-up at 2nd, possible play at 3rd, and the touch of 1st by the batter runner.

If the fly ball belongs to the U (no possible fair/foul call), the plate umpire should line up the play to see the catch and tag-up at 3rd then moving back to the plate for a possible play.

If the fly ball belongs to the PU (possible fair/foul call) the PU should let the BU know he has the ball and is on the line. The Tag-up at 3rd still belongs to the PU and the Tag-up at 2nd belongs to the BU.

[Thunderheads]

With runners on 2nd and 3rd, on any fly ball or line drive to the outfield, the PU is responsible for tag-ups at 3rd and any play at the plate. The base umpire has the tag-up at 2nd, possible play at 3rd, and the touch of 1st by the batter runner.

If the fly ball belongs to the BU (no possible fair/foul call), the plate umpire should line up the play (in foul territory) to see the catch and tag-up at 3rd then moving back to the plate for a possible play.

If the fly ball belongs to the PU (possible fair/foul call) the PU should let the BU know he has the ball and is on the line. The Tag-up at 3rd still belongs to the PU and the Tag-up at 2nd belongs to the BU.

Ok, thanks Fittske! Fittske , ...not questioning you personally, but, is that from a 'mechanics book/manual' ?

OK, so ...on the appeal, it's the PU's call to signal, yes?

[Fittske24]

Ok, thanks Fittske! Fittske , ...not questioning you personally, but, is that from a 'mechanics book/manual' ?

OK, so ...on the appeal, it's the PU's call to signal, yes?

You will find this is the preferd method in most mechanics manuals for a 2 man system.

On the appeal of 3rd.... it is the PU responsibility.

[noumpere]

Ok, thanks Fittske! Fittske , ...not questioning you personally, but, is that from a 'mechanics book/manual' ?

OK, so ...on the appeal, it's the PU's call to signal, yes?

How many times does it need to be answered? PU has ALL touches and tag-ups at third in the 2-man system. Since it's PU's responsibility, then it's PU's job to rule on the appeal.

[Thunderheads]

How many times does it need to be answered? PU has ALL touches and tag-ups at third in the 2-man system. Since it's PU's responsibility, then it's PU's job to rule on the appeal.

relax, I know it was answered, I was asking re: manual mechanics, and correctness.

My last question re: the ruling on the appeal was rhetorical I know, but I wanted to button it up.

[PeteBooth]

All ...

Sitch .... r2 and r3, 1 out.

Fly ball to F7....he's in pretty much standard left field territory ...basically behind the shortstop.

With R2/R3 I am in B, however, you must position yourself where your association wants you to.

I prefer B because as BU we MUST also watch B1 TOUCH first base should the ball be dropped. On routine fly balls from B you can position yourself around the "working area", take a glance at B1 to make sure he touches and then watch the catch / no catch.

The PU has the Tag-up of third base and the BU has BOTH B1 (watching the touch of first base and also take B1 to second base should the ball be dropped) and the tag-up of R2 (which is moot if the ball is dropped).

There should be communication between the 2 umpires. One umpire says I have the ball meaning catch/no-catch responsibilities. if the PU says "Pete I've got the ball" then I simply line myself up to see R2 tag properly and also take a peek at B1 to make certain he touches first base.

If I have the catch/no-catch - I take a quick glance at B1 and then make the catch / no catch call.

NOTE: I do not "go crazy" watching B1 touch first base when I have catch/no-catch responsibilities. I give the "glance look" so that the coaches see me my head turn towards first base so that if they appeal they cannot say "Pete you were not watching" That's a drawback of the 2 person system.

TROUBLED BALLS

This is a MUST in Pre-game. Depending upon my partner if I as BU have the catch / no catch on a troubled ball (say F8 is making a diving catch) then I want my partner the PU to take a glance at B1 should the ball be dropped and the defense want to appeal. Again a "glance" so that you are showing the coaches that someone is watching he runners touch the base.

If it's a troubled ball down the RF/line, then I will signal to my partner that I have BOTH tag-ups so that he can "cheat" more to see not only the catch/no catch but whether or not the ball is Fair / Foul

Another drawback in the 2 person system.

In a nutshell The BU has Catch /no-Catch in the V meaning from LF to RF. Anything to the right of F7 or the left of F9 is generally the PU's call.

The PU 99.99% of the time has the tag up at third base. The BU has the remainder.

Communicate with your partner.

Pete Booth

[mazzamouth]

With R2/R3 I am in B, however, you must position yourself where your association wants you to.

I prefer B because as BU we MUST also watch B1 TOUCH first base should the ball be dropped. On routine fly balls from B you can position yourself around the "working area", take a glance at B1 to make sure he touches and then watch the catch / no catch.

The PU has the Tag-up of third base and the BU has BOTH B1 (watching the touch of first base and also take B1 to second base should the ball be dropped) and the tag-up of R2 (which is moot if the ball is dropped).

There should be communication between the 2 umpires. One umpire says I have the ball meaning catch/no-catch responsibilities. if the PU says "Pete I've got the ball" then I simply line myself up to see R2 tag properly and also take a peek at B1 to make certain he touches first base.

If I have the catch/no-catch - I take a quick glance at B1 and then make the catch / no catch call.

NOTE: I do not "go crazy" watching B1 touch first base when I have catch/no-catch responsibilities. I give the "glance look" so that the coaches see me my head turn towards first base so that if they appeal they cannot say "Pete you were not watching" That's a drawback of the 2 person system.

TROUBLED BALLS

This is a MUST in Pre-game. Depending upon my partner if I as BU have the catch / no catch on a troubled ball (say F8 is making a diving catch) then I want my partner the PU to take a glance at B1 should the ball be dropped and the defense want to appeal. Again a "glance" so that you are showing the coaches that someone is watching he runners touch the base.

If it's a troubled ball down the RF/line, then I will signal to my partner that I have BOTH tag-ups so that he can "cheat" more to see not only the catch/no catch but whether or not the ball is Fair / Foul

Another drawback in the 2 person system.

In a nutshell The BU has Catch /no-Catch in the V meaning from LF to RF. Anything to the right of F7 or the left of F9 is generally the PU's call.

The PU 99.99% of the time has the tag up at third base. The BU has the remainder.

Communicate with your partner.

Pete Booth

R2 and r3 you should be in "C" are you saying you can't see BR touch 1st from "C"?...LOL

[PeteBooth]

R2 and r3 you should be in "C" are you saying you can't see BR touch 1st from "C"?...LOL

No:

Here is what I am saying

With R2/R3 the play will most likely be at first base (if hit in the infield) R2 can't go anywhere (or shouldn't) so in B IMO we are in a much better position to make the out call at first ESPECIALLY if it's a banger or a possible pulled foot / swipe tag then we would in the C slot.

if the ball is hit in the air simply move to where you need to be.

Like I said you do what your association wants you to. It's "no biggie" either way.

Pete Booth

[HokieUmp]

Catching up from several days away....

...

TROUBLED BALLS

This is a MUST in Pre-game. Depending upon my partner if I as BU have the catch / no catch on a troubled ball (say F8 is making a diving catch) then I want my partner the PU to take a glance at B1 should the ball be dropped and the defense want to appeal. Again a "glance" so that you are showing the coaches that someone is watching he runners touch the base.

If it's a troubled ball down the RF/line, then I will signal to my partner that I have BOTH tag-ups so that he can "cheat" more to see not only the catch/no catch but whether or not the ball is Fair / Foul

...

Pete, my biggest concern on this play is for the troubled balls.... Is there no one out there that can help these poor, troubled, balls???!? They need therapy, and a sense of belonging!

[tommy]

in my associations for both juco and high school we are told to be ib B with runners at 2nd and 3rd. when I work travel ball with the smaller guys I may syat in c because there are more past balls that may turn into a back door play at third or a run down situation. and yes as blind as the coaches think we may be at times we can see alllllll the way to first base from the c spot.

[UmpTTS43]

With R2, R3 there is no reason to be in B. Correct positioning is to be in C. Pre pitch positioning is based on where the most likely plays will be on all non batted balls, ie pickoffs, steals, etc. When the ball is hit, you should be able to get to where you need to be to make the call. Cheating to a different position based on what you think is probably going to happen on a batted ball will get you into trouble more often than not. When the ball is hit, stop killin grass and move.

[zm1283]

With R2, R3 there is no reason to be in B. Correct positioning is to be in C. Pre pitch positioning is based on where the most likely plays will be on all non batted balls, ie pickoffs, steals, etc. When the ball is hit, you should be able to get to where you need to be to make the call. Cheating to a different position based on what you think is probably going to happen on a batted ball will get you into trouble more often than not. When the ball is hit, stop killin grass and move.

+1. There is a reason that every mechanics manual has it this way.

[Guest]

If it's a troubled ball down the RF/line, then I will signal to my partner that I have BOTH tag-ups so that he can "cheat" more to see not only the catch/no catch but whether or not the ball is Fair / Foul

And how exactly do you see this, since you are standing between the tagging runner and the catch? B)

[jnazz]

And how exactly do you see this, since you are standing between the tagging runner and the catch?

Agreed! PU needs to pretty much be at the backstop on this one so he can see the tag and catch. Never heard of BU taking a tag at 3rd in the two man system.

[BrianC14]

Agreed! PU needs to pretty much be at the backstop on this one so he can see the tag and catch. Never heard of BU taking a tag at 3rd in the two man system.

+1. There are indeed limitations to the 2-man system, and this is certainly one of them.

Of course, if the BU would just use the eyes in the back of his head, this would go much easier. ;)

[UmpTTS43]

With R2, R3 and you have a trouble ball down the right field line, it is acceptable, and sometimes necessary, for the PU to go down the line to view the play. There are priorities when it comes to responsibilities. Fair/foul, catch/no catch, tag ups, base touches, everything else. By dropping back to try to get the tag up in your peripheral vision, you are giving priority to the tag up and may not be in the best position to view f/f, c/nc. After you have determined a catch was made, you simply look at third base and make the best judgement you can on the tag up. If coach questions you, simply tell him "I had him tagging" or "I didn't have him tagging". Since you probably didn't see the actual tag up because you were waiting for a complete catch, you don't want to tell coach that you "saw" the tag up or no tag up.

You have to take your priorities in order and be in position to rule on them. Sometimes we can't see the entire field during a play. That is the bummer with two man at times.

[yawetag]

You have to take your priorities in order and be in position to rule on them. Sometimes we can't see the entire field during a play. That is the bummer with two man at times.

+1, and PBUC agrees with you.

[noumpere]

After you have determined a catch was made, you simply look at third base and make the best judgement you can on the tag up.

You can, and should, also look before the catch is made.

And, depending on what other runners, including the BR, are doing near the time of the catch, BU can also take a peek.