Moving the game along

[Umpire in Chief]

Been there 2X in the past week somebody hates me...

[HokieUmp]

Been there 2X in the past week somebody hates me...

I haven't been anywhere in a week, so I guess I'm hated more.

Had a Western Branch game killed Monday a few hours before I was supposed to go, and then some Legion Jr game for Tuesday was killed Sunday or Monday. My last games were Sunday, doing some AAU-14s. (Your friends the Knights, in fact. No one was sent home early, although one guy got close.)

[bniu]

i got one:

i had a softball game go 3 hours b/c the teams were taking way too much time goofing around in between innings. In the last few innings, I cut out the warmups entirely. As soon as 3rd out was made, "Balls in! Batter Up!"

another time, the visiting team was late b/c the coaches got lost in traffic. Before the game, went up to both pitchers and told them not to expect any warmup pitches. Got the game over in 55 minutes due to the mercy rule...

[alex7]

If you see that the catcher will be taking too long to get out there, and you're concerned about taking warm-up pitches away from the pitcher, AND no coach is getting out there to squat, you could tell the pitcher something like "hey, you probably want to play catch with your third baseman."

[mstaylor]

I've told the pitcher many times to play catch with the thirdbaseman.

[BrianC14]

I've told the pitcher many times to play catch with the thirdbaseman.

I don't understand what this is supposed to accomplish... you haven't moved the game along by telling pitcher to do this - - are you counting these throws as warmup pitches?

And as I see it, this falls into the category of coaching. :givebeer:

[Umpire in Chief]

I do the same, it gets the pitcher loosened and their 1 min clock is ticking.

[Thunderheads]

I'm pretty sure I didn't see this mentioned , but .......

I just mention this in my pre-game, ..."coaches, please keep the guys motivated and hustling on and off the field, ok?" (said w/ a smile) .....NO PROBLEMS:wave:

[Fittske24]

I simply inform both coaches at the plate meeting "one min in between innings after the first inning. It can either be spent on the field or in the dugout. So please hustle your players on and of the field"

From Little League to college, I have never have had a problem with a coach on this after that statement.

[mstaylor]

I tell the catcher to take one, throw one when he comes out. The throwing to F5 loosens his arm. I never mention the one minute rule in pre-game, has a tendency to start the game on a bad note. What I do say is keep them moving between innings, means the same thing but doesn't make you look like an OOO.

[BrianC14]

I tell the catcher to take one, throw one when he comes out. The throwing to F5 loosens his arm. I never mention the one minute rule in pre-game, has a tendency to start the game on a bad note. What I do say is keep them moving between innings, means the same thing but doesn't make you look like an OOO.

Allow me to play devil's advocate with this.... (and I'm speaking specifically to "telling" the pitcher that he can throw to F5 to warm up).

What's going to happen if the pitcher, in throwing to F5, does something silly? Say he slips and tears a muscle, (I know, it's dumb, but play along here...) now his coach/manager wants to know "Who in the heck are YOU, Mr. Umpire, to tell my pitcher what to do for warmups?"

Gents, doing this is NOT a good idea. You got the 1 minute clock going? Fine. Catcher's taking too long? Fine. Enforce it - it's a rule, after all. You've got the book to back you up. But "telling" the pitcher to take throws with his fielder? Not a good idea. Sure, 99.99999% of the time, nothing bad would occur. But what if does? You're going to be looking for a hole to crawl into, and you won't have a rulebook to back you up. What the players are doing for warmpus (not not warming up) is not the business of the umpire.

And again - let's face it - this doesn't move the game along in the least. You're still giving 1 minute, right? The game hasn't been delayed, nor has it been sped up (by your telling the pitcher to toss to a fielder). One minute is one minute. But instructing a player who/what & how to warm up?

If things start getting out of hand between innings, then you watch it like a hawk, and you count every warmup pitch in order to move things along. If things don't improve, I can guarantee you that calling out "Ball 1!" before the batter has taken his place in the box will get their attention, PDQ. I've done it (low-level Legion game) I know it works. Funny how coaches suddenly get the message when the first batter steps in with a 1-0 count on him.

What's that, coach? You say it's unfair? Well, you and I discussed this just last inning - you were warned.

But guys, instructing a player on warming up is not the job of the umpire.

Edited December 15, 2009 by BrianC14

[Ump29]

I've told the pitcher many times to play catch with the thirdbaseman.

I could not do this in Canada as anyone warming up a pitcher Must wear a mask. Anyone seen a third base mask ??!!

[Umpire in Chief]

I could not do this in Canada as anyone warming up a pitcher Must wear a mask. Anyone seen a third base mask ??!!

Usually the mask rule only comes into issue if the catcher squats. Until he squats he's the same as any other fielder.

[kylejt]

Allow me to play devil's advocate with this.... (and I'm speaking specifically to "telling" the pitcher that he can throw to F5 to warm up).

I think it's more of a suggestion, than a command.

"Hey, why don't you throw with Jimmy?"

Plus, the pitchers step off the hill to play catch.

Me, I like to ride the coaches.

"There are three adults in the dugout, and no one is helping the catcher get his gear on. Really?"

I do a lot of things that "aren't my job". But that's just me risking my house every time I step out the door. If I overworried about getting sued, I'd never take the blanket off me in the morning.

[BrianC14]

I think it's more of a suggestion, than a command.

"Hey, why don't you throw with Jimmy?"

Plus, the pitchers step off the hill to play catch.

Me, I like to ride the coaches.

"There are three adults in the dugout, and no one is helping the catcher get his gear on. Really?"

I do a lot of things that "aren't my job". But that's just me risking my house every time I step out the door. If I overworried about getting sued, I'd never take the blanket off me in the morning.

It's still going to come down on you if something bad happens. It's not a lawsuit I'm worried about - it's entering into the coaches realm that's the issue here.

[BT_Blue]

I have to agree with Brian here. Me personally, I just sit and wait. Its not my problem if some idiot doesnt know their job. If the catcher takes to long then its one and done. Besides, most of these kids just start throwing around with F5 anyways when they dont see the catcher out there. It just seems to come naturally to them to do it.

Once again, its not our problem if little Jimmy doesnt get his 6 warmups in between innings when someone should come out and catch him unless it says in the book that he MUST get them and there is no time limit for it.

[kylejt]

It's still going to come down on you if something bad happens. It's not a lawsuit I'm worried about - it's entering into the coaches realm that's the issue here.

I'm not too worried about coaches either.

It's just a suggestion. One that's often met by an "oh yeah" look from the pitcher.

Again, it probably depends on the level, and age of play also. Me, I'm just a lowly LL scrub. But I have more coaching experience than most of the coaches on the field combined. My suggestions are usually met with a "thanks, I hadn't thought of that". So I do understand if some of you don't want to go there. Me, I've been there, done that, and got those dopey plastic trophies in my garage to prove it.

I'll also suggest to catchers to stop pulling their mitts into the strike zone, as most umpires will. That's coaching too, but it helps everyone in the long run. But everyone has their own line.

[Umpire in Chief]

I like doing it and I think when done well can not only move the game along, if only by perception, but shows the umpire is engaged in the game.

When I started focusing on game management as an area of development for myself I had a evaluation game with a tough evaluator and was really proud of myself for the game I just had. He said he was only going to give me a 2.5 on game management and I was really disappointed in the score. We talked about it and he said I did a number of things well but I had almost no game management between innings, which was just as important as the things I was doing. He gave me a number of tips I took to heart. Some things included:

Making sure the pitcher is warming up with some body

Controlling the time b/t innings.

Using that time effectively to take care of things like filling my ball bags

Give encouraging words to the players like:

"Come on guys lets go."

"Let's hustle so we can get this whole game in."

Or asking the pitcher as he's coming out:

"How many do you need, three?"

Or as they're warming up telling the pitcher, "You've got 3 more if you need it." You'll be surprised how many throw it down before that third one. (I just moved from two to three)

You can work the catcher too.

It is all a matter of perception. Does it actually save that much time, not really, but if shows everybody you are still working and engaged in the game. I firmly believe that an engaged umpire makes the difference in a 2:30 game that feels like an eternity and a 2:30 game which feels like it didn't take that long.

[BrianC14]

I think it's more of a suggestion, than a command.

"Hey, why don't you throw with Jimmy?"

Plus, the pitchers step off the hill to play catch.

That's just the point - you're not the coach! What are you doing "suggesting" anything like this?

Me, I like to ride the coaches.

"There are three adults in the dugout, and no one is helping the catcher get his gear on. Really?"

I see that as pretty condescending. Why not just instruct one of the coaches to warm up the pitcher? And in doing so, you can remind them that there's 1 minute between innings whether the pitcher warms up or not.

[BrianC14]

I'll also suggest to catchers to stop pulling their mitts into the strike zone, as most umpires will. That's coaching too, but it helps everyone in the long run. But everyone has their own line.

Note: my use of the pronoun "you" in this following statement is not directly aimed at Kyle - it's for anyone reading the post.

I agree, that is coaching. So why do it? You're not the coach!

I disagree that it "helps everyone". It doesn't help the newly-minted umpire who may decide that if it's acceptable (based on the example here) to "coach" a catcher with respect to pulling his mitt, then perhaps it's also acceptable to continue on with other "coaching hints" about his methods... or perhaps casually mentioning to him that the guy that's now on first is very fast.... or that the on-deck batter likes to bunt with runners in scoring position.

Sound crazy? Maybe so, but my bigger point is, "where does your coaching end?"

Here's another point to consider: If you're going to coach players from Team A about various things, does Team B get equal time? This is another reason why treading onto the coaches' territory is a bad idea.

For example: I NEVER tell a catcher "Stop pulling your mitt." There's no rhyme or reason for any umpire at any level to say something like that. To repeat: YOU ARE NOT THE COACH.

It may bother you when catchers do that (I know it bothers me) but he's not doing anything illegal, so where do you get off telling him to stop doing that? And believe me, opposing coaches can easily see when a catcher pulls a pitch... once you start calling those things strikes, you're going to be in for a long, long game; and the same goes for instructing the catcher to stop pulling - what if the other catcher does it on just a few occasions?

There's a world of difference in the way something like this is handled.

What I say to a "mitt puller" goes something like this:

F2: pitch comes in ...THWACK! (mitt pull)

Me: "Ball."

F2: "Where was that one, Brian?"

Me: "Just off."

F2: "Man, I thought that was awful close - I thought we had that."

Me: "Then why'd you pull your mitt in?"

F2: "Uh.....ummmm...." (cue the chirping crickets....)

The difference here is that I haven't TOLD him "Don't do that, don't do this.."

In other words, I've refrained from coaching. I've merely asked a legitimate question in response to his complaint about where a particular pitch might be.

If he doesn't "get it", it's not my job to continue helping (coaching) him.

Final note: The reason I recommend to stay away from coaching is this:

I used to say things like "Don't pull your mitt" and "Go ahead and throw with F5", etc. etc.

One game I did say that - "Don't pull your mitt." and that one game I added, "If you roll it over rather than pull it, you never know.... maybe it'll get called."

Well, guess what? As I was saying that - thinking that I was being "helpful" - the first base coach was on his way back to his 3B dugout, and was right behind me and the catcher, and he obviously heard me.

He also obviously mentioned it to the manager/head coach. Next inning, the manager/head coach comes out, (and this particular guy has been coaching baseball almost as long as I've been alive (and I'm 51...) and he wants to know why I have been caught (and I was caught) helping the other team.

I guarantee you that I haven't attempted to "help everyone" again.

I am the umpire. I call the balls & strikes, outs, safes, fair, foul and I apply the rules of baseball. I do not coach.

[mstaylor]

I agree that we shouldn't coach but in certain circumstances we do. I suggest to the pitcher he might want to F5, as mentioned, many times he does it anyway. They also do it when the catcher has an equipment problem or a pinch hitter is being entered. I am squarely behind you on the don't coach thing but here just isn't it.

[BrianC14]

I agree that we shouldn't coach but in certain circumstances we do. I suggest to the pitcher he might want to F5, as mentioned, many times he does it anyway. They also do it when the catcher has an equipment problem or a pinch hitter is being entered. I am squarely behind you on the don't coach thing but here just isn't it.

Mike, I take a hard line on this sort of thing (obvious by now, I suppose ) - it's this sort of seemingly innocent type of thing that allows what I'll call the "drip, drip, drip" approach to crossing the coaches territorial line. I just see it as none of my business to inform/instruct/suggest that a player DO anything along these lines.

It doesn't change my approach to the game at all - and I'm not an OOO when I work a game, but I do keep things moving at all times. We've all had those games where time has stood still, (I had a memorable double header of a Legion C set last summer that took forever just over six hours for both games - yikes...) and in both games, my partner and I made sure to remind players and coaches to 'Hustle in, hustle out".... and one coach in particular was oblivious to it... until about the 5th inning of game 2 he inquired if there wasn't a time limit on the game... "No," says I. "why do you think we've been after your team to hustle in and out? "

To me, there's nothing to be gained by instructing (or suggesting) that a pitcher warm up with F2, F5, or his Grandmother in Row 12. If said pitcher is that clueless, it's not up to me to get him going. But like I said, he'll get the message loud & clear when I call 'Ball 1' and he's yet to throw a pitch.

[kylejt]

another time, the visiting team was late b/c the coaches got lost in traffic. Before the game, went up to both pitchers and told them not to expect any warmup pitches. ...

That doesn't seem fair to the kids.

[kylejt]

That's just the point - you're not the coach! What are you doing "suggesting" anything like this?

I see that as pretty condescending. Why not just instruct one of the coaches to warm up the pitcher? And in doing so, you can remind them that there's 1 minute between innings whether the pitcher warms up or not.

Sorry. LL doesn't allow coaches to warm up pitchers. Lots of times coaches are standing around, instead of sending a bench player out, or helping the catcher get gear on.

Again, I'm probably not the typical umpire that calls a game, and heads to the car. I'm coach/teacher/UIC/League official/groundskeeper/etc. I wear a lot of hats at my local, and most listen when I suggest something. Most even say thank you, when I do.

[kylejt]

F2: pitch comes in ...THWACK! (mitt pull)

Me: "Ball."

F2: "Where was that one, Brian?"

Me: "Just off."

F2: "Man, I thought that was awful close - I thought we had that."

Me: "Then why'd you pull your mitt in?"

F2: "Uh.....ummmm...." (cue the chirping crickets....)

.

We're talking about WAAAAAY different situations in the games we umpire. Me, I'm working with 12 year olds, who'll never ask "where was that one?". They'll hold the mitt out there a bit too long, like DAD has wrongly instructed them to.

At the local level, where I want the kids to excell, I'll tell the catcher to stop moving the glove if he wants the edges. Is it coaching, you bet it is. And do I tell a coach, after a game, that his number two hitter is way off the plate? Yup. Heck, I want our league to get better. I want to go back to Williamsport, and beat a good Japanese team, like we did in 2005. I want to keep the City trophies, like we do every year. Heck, the coaches solicite my input after many games, as do the kids.

The umpires in my league help the league get better. It's something we've built up over the years. But I understand that most places don't have that sort of relationship with their umpires/players/coaches/parents. But everyone is on board with it at our local.

Now, do I do the same come tournament time? Hell no. Different deal.