Help me understand how we got here

[Velho]

Not here to pick on the plate umpire. I'm more interested in what led to this.

NO training (which I find very hard to believe given this is supposedly LL Pennsylvania Majors State Championship game).

Local cultural issue of not striving hard to perfect the craft? One where "honest conflict over dishonest harmony" is the norm?

Something else?

 

 

 

 

 

[The Man in Blue]

Which piece do you want to start with?

I 1000% agree with you that the umpire is not who we should be looking at though.

[JSam21]

To me... it looks like a guy who is used to working games solo, so he went out to the position that he was comfortable in to take a play at the plate... So it might not be a "training issue" as much as muscle memory.

 

 

[Velho]

9 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Which piece do you want to start with?

There are smaller ones - helmet in right hand and dusting the plate from the wrong side - are not great but are not capital offenses.

Though, as I type that, it makes me realize there is no cultural attention to detail. When I was somewhat trained (but hadn't gone through school or really gotten indoctrinated) I took my helmet off with my right hand and signaled a HR. Post game I was told, flatly and simply, that I had done that. I've been left handed ever since.

[JSam21]

5 minutes ago, Velho said:

There are smaller ones - helmet in right hand and dusting the plate from the wrong side - are not great but are not capital offenses.

Though, as I type that, it makes me realize there is no cultural attention to detail. When I was somewhat trained (but hadn't gone through school or really gotten indoctrinated) I took my helmet off with my right hand and signaled a HR. Post game I was told, flatly and simply, that I had done that. I've been left handed ever since.

This is another "Solo Game" thing, to keep everything in front of you. It is solidifying my stance. 

[Velho]

10 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

This is another "Solo Game" thing, to keep everything in front of you. It is solidifying my stance. 

I can see that. Though, how does spinning out into the field for a play at home (with a trailing runner no less) translate to working solo? Simply what he had figured out worked for him (no judgement) but no support system?

[The Man in Blue]

I never thought about the solo aspect. I try NOT to think about solo aspects . . . but that's a good observation.

 

7 minutes ago, Velho said:

I can see that. Though, how does spinning out into the field for a play at home (with a trailing runner no less) translate to working solo? Simply what he had figured out worked for him (no judgement) but no support system?

Since y'all are going to make me think about solo aspects . . . Positioning for secondary plays.

[Mister B]

The leading runner wanting a review is pretty funny. 

But why would you turn your back to the field when working solo? I may step out on to the apron on a ball hit to the outfield, but I start moving back to the wedge as that first runner is scoring. 

As an aside, has sliding gotten really bad in the last year or 2? I see so many incoming HS players and even JV who don't know how to slide. They come in on a hip, usually the right hip, and have both legs bent at the knees. Can't tell you the number of times I've wanted to tell a coach, "He would have been safe, if you taught him how to slide properly." When my son was playing, I loved watching him pop up after a feet first slide and be ready to take the next base on a miscue. Another lost art. 

[JonnyCat]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

NO training (which I find very hard to believe given this is supposedly LL Pennsylvania Majors State Championship game).

Local cultural issue of not striving hard to perfect the craft? One where "honest conflict over dishonest harmony" is the norm?

If this is a State game, then the umpires are not assigned by Little League, unlike the Regionals or World Series.

It is most likely assigned by the UIC of the hosting District. So this guy is very likely some local umpire with very poor, or limited training. That's what is probably in play, and maybe the standard that they are teaching in that area.

Someone high up at Western Region, with the initials of MB, told me recently, that the LL community in the rest of the country is about 10 years behind the Western Region training. At one of the first ID camps he attended, I believe at Williamsport, he was dumbfounded to find out that they did not even know what "soft toss" training was. That was among many other deficiencies he noticed in their training methodologies.

The West guys are usually much better trained than what you see in the rest of the LL world.

[Velho]

30 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

The West guys are usually much better trained than what you see in the rest of the LL world.

Shhhh. We're not supposed say that out loud anymore 😁

[MadMax]

18 hours ago, Velho said:

I'm more interested in what led to this.

In a word, cronyism. 

There’s a term, circulated around the umpire community, rather flippantly and ambiguously most of the time – “bad optics”. This game is an example of that. And I ain’t calling the umpire to task, I’m calling the organization who put him, and that crew (of 4) out there to task.  Administrative / assigning decisions like these have a rippling effect; I’m sure that if you polled the other three umpires their sentiments about “that guy getting Plate”, at least one of them will disclose something along the lines of “WTH is he/are we doing?” 

I love vocabulary days! 

[Velho]

Just now, MadMax said:

In a word, cronyism. 

I was hopeful but afraid that's where we were going to end up.

Continuing to prove to myself that I'm an optimist as heart.

[The Man in Blue]

On 7/28/2025 at 5:19 PM, Mister B said:

But why would you turn your back to the field when working solo?

As an aside, has sliding gotten really bad in the last year or 2? . . . Another lost art. 

I don't know . . . why the hell are you working solo?  

 

Last year or 2?  Oh no, it's been a lot longer than that.  Definitely a lost art that would produce less outs and more runs.  

[834k3r]

On 7/28/2025 at 12:32 PM, Velho said:

Not here to pick on the plate umpire. I'm more interested in what led to this.

NO training (which I find very hard to believe given this is supposedly LL Pennsylvania Majors State Championship game).

Local cultural issue of not striving hard to perfect the craft? One where "honest conflict over dishonest harmony" is the norm?

Something else?

 

 

LL Pennsylvania PU Reverse Wedge 2025-07.mov 17.57 MB · 16 downloads  

 

 

 

In my days in the military, I would describe that as a "soup sandwich."

[834k3r]

On 7/28/2025 at 3:19 PM, Mister B said:

But why would you turn your back to the field when working solo? I may step out on to the apron on a ball hit to the outfield, but I start moving back to the wedge as that first runner is scoring.

I think he could be forgiven if that was the case here--but it's clearly a mechanic and position he's developed, either solo or under instruction. Hell, 1BLX would be preferable to whatever he's doing.

[JSam21]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

I think he could be forgiven if that was the case here--but it's clearly a mechanic and position he's developed, either solo or under instruction. Hell, 1BLX would be preferable to whatever he's doing.

It clearly is... I will give him this though, when he moved, he moved with a purpose. 

[concertman1971]

Here is my $0.02

You don't know, what you DONT know. Maybe no one has ever told him that one shouldn't take plays from that side. Maybe he has never been to a camp/clinic. Maybe he doesn't care. Maybe his ASSignor doesn't care. maybe he is a guy who works games solely for the cash because he is behind on Child Support payments. 

My guess is that he has never been trained, and this is the 1st time he has been in a "big game" where all eyes are on him and there are 42 "scout cameras" streaming the game. I am not going to throw this guy under the bus, but it appears that he has had no training.

Did the 1st runner touch home? The actions of his head tell me he did not see. (lack of training).

His need to "be somewhere" also tells me he lacks training. Think back to when you were 1st umpiring. If you were not doing "something" or "hustling" were you even umpiring. On of my umpire peers/mentors is SOOOO good at doing "nothing" (umpiring) until he has to do SOMETHING (umpire)!

If no one has told him, he doesn't know. If he has been told and doesn't care, that is on him

 

[The Man in Blue]

Umm . . . we literally said those are things we know we don't know.  😁

I refuse to post Rumsfeld . . . 

[Velho]

29 minutes ago, concertman1971 said:

If no one has told him, he doesn't know. If he has been told and doesn't care, that is on him

The thread meandered into trying to understand the rationale behind specific mechanics but, back to OP, that's where this started. No blame on the PU.

To be more succinct and direct:

Why the F%^&% is the plate umpire for a LL State Majors Final not qualified to do the job? [Again - possibly through no fault of his own]

I can only speak to my local district and region (remember - I ONLY do LL) and the fact is we take this seriously. There is a core group of nearly 20 of us that work at this like we're going to the MLB. Even those a tick below that level of engagement are held accountable to our same standards. Those folks that aren't bought in to that same level self select out of high level games or aren't chosen. Very, very few of those game assignments are outright questionable "what the hell?" assignments.

As I mentioned above, I asked the question even though I knew the answer. I was trying to be open minded and gracious (and hoping for another answer).

My frustration comes from the fact that myself and local crew are damn good, some are even great, and there aren't enough top level games to go around while I have to see this online. The level of inconsistency is demoralizing, not to mention it feeds the "LL umpire" stereotype that allows it to be used as a pejorative. 

[Velho]

56 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Let me help you out boomer

[JSam21]

10 hours ago, Velho said:

The thread meandered into trying to understand the rationale behind specific mechanics but, back to OP, that's where this started. No blame on the PU.

To be more succinct and direct:

Why the F%^&% is the plate umpire for a LL State Majors Final not qualified to do the job? [Again - possibly through no fault of his own]

I can only speak to my local district and region (remember - I ONLY do LL) and the fact is we take this seriously. There is a core group of nearly 20 of us that work at this like we're going to the MLB. Even those a tick below that level of engagement are held accountable to our same standards. Those folks that aren't bought in to that same level self select out of high level games or aren't chosen. Very, very few of those game assignments are outright questionable "what the hell?" assignments.

As I mentioned above, I asked the question even though I knew the answer. I was trying to be open minded and gracious (and hoping for another answer).

My frustration comes from the fact that myself and local crew are damn good, some are even great, and there aren't enough top level games to go around while I have to see this online. The level of inconsistency is demoralizing, not to mention it feeds the "LL umpire" stereotype that allows it to be used as a pejorative. 

Can you control what other regions do? Can you control who gets selected to do those games? The answer to both of those questions is no. So stop worrying about it. Control what you can control. You don't need to toot your own horn on-line. Just go work and don't be a thief of joy.  

Something about this just rubs me the wrong way... What you started appeared to be in good faith, but has apparently devolved into complaining that you and your friends are much better umpires than the gentleman in the video and shouldn't be working games of that magnitude. Personally, that is probably why you aren't working the games that you think you "deserve".

[Velho]

[ArchAngel72]

IMHO

 

What we have here is someone who has probably put in a bunch of time the past bunch of seasons and NEVER took any kind of training but was promised by the DA he would get a District or State game if he put his time in. 

Well 10U plate came up and they tossed him in there.  

 

But damn that was "ugly" to watch.

For the record I have done State final games bases and plates.  And admittedly on a ball to Left / center field when I was 3U I moved inside so I could "see better" ( my 1st time on the bases in a 4 man)  I have no idea what made me think move in  but I did .  And whooo did I get a talking to.

Much the way you guys have pinned my ears back when I post something dumb  🤪

[BigBlue4u]

3 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

What we have here is someone who has probably put in a bunch of time the past bunch of seasons and NEVER took any kind of training but was promised by the DA he would get a District or State game if he put his time in. 

This is often a problem when associations put umpires into post season games as a reward for "A career well-done." The problem is that in some cases, the umpires are well past their prime with physical issues, etc.  The other problem is that some umpires just don't know when to say "when." Indeed, it can get ugly.

[DevildogUmp]

My 2 cents:

Sometimes the DA/UIC hosting a state tournament doesn't have a choice on who he/she puts on the game (especially if they are trying to run a 4-man crew). I have seen a drop in umpires willing to travel within their state to support the state tournaments. The last 4 state tournaments I traveled to, there was only 1 other umpire besides me that was not a local guy.