Have you ever balked this?

[834k3r]

R2; other runners don't matter. F1 disengages legally and throws to F4, who's still at least 8 feet from 2B. I had never seen this until this year, but now I've seen it three times in 2 weeks.

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

[BigBlue4u]

15 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

[jimurrayalterego]

14 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said:

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

 

32 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

R2; other runners don't matter. F1 disengages legally and throws to F4, who's still at least 8 feet from 2B. I had never seen this until this year, but now I've seen it three times in 2 weeks.

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

If he disengaged he can throw anywhere as an infielder and it wouldn't be a balk unless you perceived intentional delay of the game which I wouldn't in the OP.

Are both of you not aware that if you can legally feint to a base while engaged then you also can throw to a fielder off that base if there is a runner and the pitcher steps legally?

[Replacematt]

2 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

This is not a balk in any set of rules.

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

This is a judgment call.  If the umpire judges the throw is an attempt to retire a runner, it's nothing.  Otherwise, it's a balk.

Nope.  It's a rules issue.  If you know the rule, you won't balk it.  If you don't know the rule, you might.

[grayhawk]

6 hours ago, 834k3r said:

R2; other runners don't matter. F1 disengages legally and throws to F4, who's still at least 8 feet from 2B. I had never seen this until this year, but now I've seen it three times in 2 weeks.

How many of you are balking this under 6.02(a)(4) or related NFHS rule (too lazy to look it up right now)?

He could be 30 feet from the base and it's still nothing (except in NCAA where it would be a clock violation).

[Biscuit]

The reason that throwing to a 1st of 3rd baseman who is away from the bag on a pick off is a balk is because that is interpreted as a feint/not a direct throw to a base. However, in this case, it is not a balk for at least two reasons. First, he legally disengaged, thus it is not a pick off move. Even to first or third, this is not a balk. Second, the prohibition against fainting is only applicable at first and third*. As this play was to second, a feint IS legal, and thus this is legal (except, as Grayhawk said, where pitch clocks make it illegal). 

*High School still, inexplicably, allows for the feint to third. So, this play would actually be legal ro second even if engaged.

[johnnyg08]

It is impossible to balk to 2B. (I know, I know...don't nitpick) From a teaching standpoint it's best to start with this concept. 

Don't balk this in any rule set. 

[BrainFreeze]

RHP with an inside leg turn steps towards 2B for a pickoff attempt.

Still engaged with his pivot foot, there is no one covering 2B so he throws to F4 who is about 15 feet to the 1B side. 

Isn't the pitcher required to throw directly to the base?  There was a balk early in the MLB season where RHP threw towards F5 who was well off the base and a balk was called. 

OP's situation is different, F1 disengaged end of story.  

( I am painfully aware of "it's impossible to balk to 2B", but for some of us the dream lives on...  )

[jimurrayalterego]

22 minutes ago, BrainFreeze said:

RHP with an inside leg turn steps towards 2B for a pickoff attempt.

Still engaged with his pivot foot, there is no one covering 2B so he throws to F4 who is about 15 feet to the 1B side. 

Isn't the pitcher required to throw directly to the base?  There was a balk early in the MLB season where RHP threw towards F5 who was well off the base and a balk was called. 

OP's situation is different, F1 disengaged end of story.  

( I am painfully aware of "it's impossible to balk to 2B", but for some of us the dream lives on...  )

If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base.

[BrainFreeze]

2 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base.

Thank you for the clarification.  Very helpful.

[Richvee]

28 minutes ago, BrainFreeze said:

Isn't the pitcher required to throw directly to the base?

Step directly to a base. Throw to 1B and 3B (1B only in FED)

28 minutes ago, BrainFreeze said:

There was a balk early in the MLB season where RHP threw towards F5 who was well off the base and a balk was called. 

OBR/NCAA 3B is treated like 1B

FED 3B is treated like 2B

[Side Retired]

Maybe not the place for this but in high school varsity ball, I remember our ace pitcher had a tell. With runner on second he would always look at second twice. Only twice not even just one time. always twice. A team we played picked up on it and they started going for third after the second look a couple times before our guy fgured it out. Finally, our guy looked back home the second time with a runner going and someone maybe his dad yelled at him to look at second again right when he lifted his leg to go home. He did but the runner was already going to third, so our guy threw to third who was way back off. No where near the bag. The runner stopped and went back to second and the umpire called it balk. Sent the guy to third. This was a while back, maybe before the legally disengage stuff was added but I don't know for sure. I always thought we got screwed because the runner clearly started to go but then went back to second.

[JimmyK]

I am sorry, I hate baseball myths, and so may I ask what rule you are using to state:

"If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base."

I, in no way, am trying to start anything, I just need to know.

Thanks.

[jimurrayalterego]

3 hours ago, JimmyK said:

I am sorry, I hate baseball myths, and so may I ask what rule you are using to state:

"If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base."

I, in no way, am trying to start anything, I just need to know.

Thanks.

You do need to know. The applicable rule in OBR is 6.02(a)(2) which prohibits feints to first or third but not second. But if you still have doubts we can cite the Major League Baseball Umpire Manual (MLBUM) which has interps and clarifications for their rules. My Bold:

"60. BALK REGULATIONS

Rule 6.02(a):

A balk shall be called audibly (“Balk!” or “That’s a balk!”) and by pointing laterally at the pitcher. However, the ball is not dead automatically when this call is made. The ball becomes dead only when the umpire calls “Time” following the call of balk, and the call of “Time” is to be made only when play stops (i.e., when it is apparent that all runners including the batter-runner will not advance one base).

REGULATIONS:

(a) The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to a fielder who is either in front of or behind first or third base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at that base. However, there is no violation if the pitcher throws the ball directly to first or third base in this situation. (Also see next paragraph in this section.)

(b) There is no violation if a pitcher attempts a legal pickoff at second base and, seeing no fielder covering the bag, throws to a fielder, who is neither in the vicinity of the bag nor making an actual attempt to retire the runner."

NCAA is the same as OBR. High School still allows feints to 3B also.

[MadMax]

17 hours ago, JimmyK said:

so may I ask what rule you are using to state:

"If you can feint to a base from the rubber you can throw to a fielder off the base."

It’s not so much an outright rule, but more of an analogy derived from a/the rule. 

Let’s hop around the diamond, shall we? Assume the base is occupied, and that all feints / throws are direct, w/o stepping off or disengaging first. 
Can you feint to 1B? No, in all codes. You must throw to the base. Thus, you must throw to the fielder covering the Runner at the base (R1). 

Can you feint to 3B? No, in OBR and NCAA, you cannot. Therefore, if you do throw, just like at 1B, you must throw to the base (granted, there are violation interpretations on where the fielder is when receives the throw). However, in NFHS, you can (still) feint towards 3B. Thus, any throw towards 3B (in NFHS) has no requirement on where the fielder receives it… because F1 didn’t have to throw to begin with. 

Now, to 2B… in all codes, you can feint to 2B, without any requirement to throw. The act of stepping / making a move towards 2B is the legal disengagement. With that act, F1 is now a fielder, and can throw “anywhere”. There just happens to be an additional wrinkle each in the OBR and NCAA codes. 
- In OBR, when using Time Clock Rules, it counts against the number of disengagements; the 3rd disengagement without put-out of a/the Runner → Balk. 
- in NCAA, a disengagement without throw is marked as a “reset”. The 2nd marked reset → Ball added to the count. In order to prohibit defenses from skirting the rule, and throwing to a fielder not in any position to make a play on the Runner (typically R2), NCAA authorized a Ball penalty (not a Balk penalty) to be directly applied. 

 

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

In order to prohibit defenses from skirting the rule, and throwing to a fielder not in any position to make a play on the Runner (typically R2), NCAA authorized a Ball penalty (not a Balk penalty) to be directly applied. 

And the reason for this is that it's a clock violation for not making a legitimate attempt to retire the runner.

[jimurrayalterego]

So, @834k3r, @BigBlue4u, @JimmyK have slinked off, not acknowledging their misunderstanding of the rules. Or perhaps for reinforcement of their errors which can come from their cohorts saying everybody knows that's a balk.

[834k3r]

On 11/12/2025 at 7:39 PM, jimurrayalterego said:

So, @834k3r, @BigBlue4u, @JimmyK have slinked off, not acknowledging their misunderstanding of the rules. Or perhaps for reinforcement of their errors which can come from their cohorts saying everybody knows that's a balk.

As I said before the mods deleted the part of the thread where you demeaned me, I didn't say I balked them. What I did say (right there in the OP. Go ahead and re-read it. I'll wait.) was that I had seen them called balks in three separate games. Big difference.

[jimurrayalterego]

4 hours ago, 834k3r said:

As I said before the mods deleted the part of the thread where you demeaned me, I didn't say I balked them. What I did say (right there in the OP. Go ahead and re-read it. I'll wait.) was that I had seen them called balks in three separate games. Big difference.

Were the three balks with umpires you knew or associated with and did you try to correct their misunderstanding then or even after you got our cites? If not just acknowledge in thread that you weren't sure the three balks were major kicks of an infielder legally throwing to a fielder and if there was no disengagement your reference to 6.02(a)(4) would not make it a balk for an engaged pitcher.

[BigBlue4u]

On 11/15/2025 at 11:41 AM, 834k3r said:

So, @834k3r, @BigBlue4u, @JimmyK have slinked off, not acknowledging their misunderstanding of the rules.

OK.  I'm slinking back.  So, if a pitcher throws to any player other than the catcher unless it's an attempt to retire a runner, the penalty is a warning.  If it happens again, the pitcher is ejected.  If that is the correct NFHS ruling, I made a mistake in my original response.  This would also be a good time to implement the umpire's prayer: "If I'm not right, please God make me look right."

[jimurrayalterego]

22 minutes ago, BigBlue4u said:

OK.  I'm slinking back.  So, if a pitcher throws to any player other than the catcher unless it's an attempt to retire a runner, the penalty is a warning.  If it happens again, the pitcher is ejected.  If that is the correct NFHS ruling, I made a mistake in my original response.  This would also be a good time to implement the umpire's prayer: "If I'm not right, please God make me look right."

You would not enforce the delay of game rule unless you judged a deliberate attempt to delay. A step from the rubber to 2B, FED and LL  2B and 3B, with a runner there or going there is a legal feint whether a fielder is there or not. If the pitcher stepped to the base and threw to the SS in position because he incorrectly thought he might get balked or because he felt like not stopping his arm motion it's not delay of game or anything else aside from codes with pitch clock rules. A dissengage and throw to a fielder off the base with a runner there is also nothing.

[834k3r]

On 11/15/2025 at 4:27 PM, jimurrayalterego said:

Were the three balks with umpires you knew or associated with and did you try to correct their misunderstanding then or even after you got our cites? If not just acknowledge in thread that you weren't sure the three balks were major kicks of an infielder legally throwing to a fielder and if there was no disengagement your reference to 6.02(a)(4) would not make it a balk for an engaged pitcher.

I didn't know them. I was simply asking if anyone had balked a similar situation. If I had known them, for sure I would have had the conversation--that's what we do for each other.