Inside move-Balk to 2nd

[Coach Donk]

12U. MLB rules apply. 

Runner on 2nd. Pitcher executes inside move but does not throw to 2nd. Balk was called. Umpire says that pivot foot must disengage. (This was confirmed by the home plate ump, tournament director, and director of umpires for the organization). Further discussion with umpire. Umpire says that after throw or fake the pivot foot must disengage. This is different than I have always thought. I cannot find it anywhere on-line of rule book. Can anyone confirm if this is a balk or not? 

[noumpere]

Not a balk, as described.

F1 must (eventually) disengage before restarting the pitching routine -- but even that's not a balk.

[grayhawk]

5 hours ago, Coach Donk said:

This was confirmed by the home plate ump, tournament director, and director of umpires for the organization

 

[Biscuit]

This is as good a time as any to brag about my reality breaking play from this spring. What reality? Tye reality that you can't balk to second. No really, I had a balk to second. Kid does an inside move. Or at least, most of one. The foot comes up, he twists, and throws to second... And... Steps home? I'm sorry? WHAT???? After throwing, but before putting his foot down, he un-rotated and stepped to home. I was do flabbergasted it took me a couple seconds to call the balk. 

[Velho]

33 minutes ago, Biscuit said:

After throwing, but before putting his foot down, he un-rotated and stepped to home.

Now I need to make an appointment with my chiropractor. I'm a visual person.

[Coach Donk]

19 hours ago, grayhawk said:

 

My words to the tournament director regarding the head of umpiring for the organization "I'd fire him tomorrow". 

[Tborze]

On 7/24/2024 at 3:18 PM, Biscuit said:

This is as good a time as any to brag about my reality breaking play from this spring. What reality? Tye reality that you can't balk to second. No really, I had a balk to second. Kid does an inside move. Or at least, most of one. The foot comes up, he twists, and throws to second... And... Steps home? I'm sorry? WHAT???? After throwing, but before putting his foot down, he un-rotated and stepped to home. I was do flabbergasted it took me a couple seconds to call the balk. 

He didn’t balk to 2nd!  

 

[noumpere]

On 7/25/2024 at 6:32 AM, Coach Donk said:

My words to the tournament director regarding the head of umpiring for the organization "I'd fire him tomorrow". 

I would like to hear the version of events from the umpire, UIC and TD

[noumpere]

13 minutes ago, Tborze said:

He didn’t balk to 2nd!  

 

Agreed.  That whole IIITBTSB is just semantics.  It should be retired along with "must drop hands" and "deceive the runner" and ...

[MadMax]

On 7/24/2024 at 5:38 AM, Coach Donk said:

Balk was called. Umpire says that pivot foot must disengage. (This was confirmed by the home plate ump, tournament director, and director of umpires for the organization). Further discussion with umpire. Umpire says that after throw or fake the pivot foot must disengage.

This is a different form of viral umpiring. 

This stems from a (local) umpire looking for balks. Whether influenced by his own misinterpretation of the rules, or by some local association discussion / directives (a “clinic” perhaps?), or from observation of another umpire call (or tell about) this, he jumped on this because it “didn’t look right”. The others supporting him stems from “reinforcement bias”; by their very nature – judgement calls – balks are extremely troublesome to refute or “overturn”. Can’t protest them, can’t go back and correct them… and by an umpire or official adjacent to the action/game in which it occurred stating that it wasn’t a balk, it erodes the discernment of umpires, or it affects the umpire who originated the call, and he feels betrayed and unsupported. 

As @noumpere alludes, it is near-impossible to step/move/fake/throw to 2B, not disengage the pivot foot, and then resume a pitching position. 

[BigBlue4u]

6 hours ago, noumpere said:

Agreed.  That whole IIITBTSB is just semantics.  It should be retired along with "must drop hands" and "deceive the runner" and ...

I've have always maintained the phrase to "deceive" the runner in regard to a balk is a misnomer.  Of course the pitcher is trying to deceive the runner.  The correct phrase should be:  "Illegally deceive" the runner.

[noumpere]

23 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

I've have always maintained the phrase to "deceive" the runner in regard to a balk is a misnomer.  Of course the pitcher is trying to deceive the runner.  The correct phrase should be:  "Illegally deceive" the runner.

of course.   Just like IIITBTSB is different from IITB with an R2 or IITB while making a move to second.

[GerryB]

This past Monday (wood bat, MLB rules) I had an inside move properly executed with R2, and no throw to second. Of course R2 was stunned and didn't move until P (disengaged) threw to the shortstop. R2 then broke for third, the SS threw to the third baseman for the easy out.

Manager came out like a rocket screaming, "That's a balk! He has to complete his throw to second!". Nope, and after a while he burned out and left.

[The Man in Blue]

On 7/24/2024 at 2:18 PM, Biscuit said:

This is as good a time as any to brag about my reality breaking play from this spring. What reality? Tye reality that you can't balk to second. No really, I had a balk to second. Kid does an inside move. Or at least, most of one. The foot comes up, he twists, and throws to second... And... Steps home? I'm sorry? WHAT???? After throwing, but before putting his foot down, he un-rotated and stepped to home. I was do flabbergasted it took me a couple seconds to call the balk. 

 

Were these the starting pitchers for that game?

[The Man in Blue]

Could this "no feint to second" belief come from teams moving back and forth between Fed and OBR (and not bothering to learn or understand the subtleties)? 

As we know, Fed allows the feint to third while OBR does not.  Could it be that was misunderstood (or even mis-instructed through viral umpiring) as NO FEINTS PERIOD and then perpetuated?

[noumpere]

It's al;ways been that way -- and some of it is caused by umpires at the youth level misapplying the rules.

 

There are periodic examples of MLB players / coaches / announcers being given rules quizzes and scoring about 30% -- on somewhat rare, but not really that tough questions.  Everyone here would (or should) score at least 90%.

[Biscuit]

On 8/2/2024 at 9:21 AM, The Man in Blue said:

 

Were these the starting pitchers for that game?

I don't really remember, but that was one of my least favorite games of the season. Like, 3a ball (which in my area is rare... It's almost all 5 and 6a), and I had the coach out on me like three times for a lodged ball on a pitch that scored a run (he said the catcher reached for it so it shouldn't be a lodged ball, lol), this, and calling IFF on a ball that the 2nd base man gave up on when called off by the center fielder... At the grass dirt line... I was pretty done with that game.