Batter foot out of box.

[smoyer]

Batter hits ball with foot on ground out of box.Do you stop play immediately or let it play out and get a runner out ignore batter violation?  Little League rules.

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, smoyer said:

Batter hits ball with foot on ground out of box.Do you stop play immediately or let it play out and get a runner out ignore batter violation?

Immediate dead ball for illegally batted ball. 

[smoyer]

Thanks.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, smoyer said:

Thanks.

To assuage any follow ups, the foot was on the ground completely out of the box and not touching the line of the box when the ball was hit and this was an OBR game? 

[JonnyCat]

Don't make this your best call.

If you're going to make this call, you better be damn sure the batters foot was entirely outside the box and on the ground when contact with the ball was made.

And if you did see it so clearly, why weren't you tracking the pitch and seeing the ball off the bat? How were the lines of the batters box? Were they still clearly marked?

I've seen it called many times in LL, and usually it's the wrong call. The umpire was just assuming the foot was outside the box. For some reason, during LL training, they like to emphasize making this call.

There's a reason for the rule, and make sure it is applied properly and in the right situations.

[Velho]

18 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

Don't make this your best call.

If you're going to make this call, you better be damn sure the batters foot was entirely outside the box and on the ground when contact with the ball was made.

Absolutely this.

17 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

And if you did see it so clearly, why weren't you tracking the pitch and seeing the ball off the bat? How were the lines of the batters box? Were they still clearly marked?

Not going to argue with that though I find the front of the box ones pretty simply when they setup there or make a running  shuffle on a prior pitch. LL kids aren't full size. Their strides are smaller so unless they set up in the front of the box it's unlikely they'll get all the way out. Having that pre-notion, they make contact, you read the ball, then peak at the foot.If it's still stationary and blatantly outside, grab it. If they are crazy fast and are gone by then, oh well. It's usually a bunt so easier. The back of the box ones are harder (and would suck when the kid pulls it on tv and you don't grab it).

One point for people to know - in LL, foot on the plate but still in the box, is legal. High School it's an out. When that happens in LL, it gives folks heartburn.

[grayhawk]

I've called this once in 15 years, and it was on a bunt where I had time to see the batter's foot on the plate as he squared.

[Velho]

2 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I've called this once in 15 years, and it was on a bunt where I had time to see the batter's foot on the plate as he squared.

I've had it only once as well. 10 yr old AS's. Was bailing out to the point it was like he was hitting a tennis forehand. Saw him maybe do it once on a take (it was only a maybe and no contact, so no call), then a foul ball (I let it go), then on a fair ball, 100% outside the box - grabbed it that time. Was doing him a favor. He didn't want to be there.

[Jimurray]

It can happen with a junkball pitcher when batters move up in the box. Coaches will chirp about it and if you pay attention to the coach you will see the foot touching the line or not. Next pitch you are looking at the foot with no swing and no idea of ball or strike.

[834k3r]

I can see getting this in the first inning of a game, when it's easier to see footprints in the dirt and chalk/paint.

After that, how does that conversation go? "Blue, his foot was out of the box!" "I'll be looking for that, or would you rather have me call accurate balls and strikes?"

Also, impossible to see post-action on turf fields--for obvious reasons.

[JonnyCat]

5 hours ago, grayhawk said:

and it was on a bunt where I had time to see the batter's foot on the plate as he squared.

That's pretty much what the rule is for. It's for the egregious violation that you can clearly see. If you're not sure, don't call it.

[JonnyCat]

5 hours ago, Velho said:

Having that pre-notion, they make contact, you read the ball, then peak at the foot.If it's still stationary and blatantly outside, grab it.

At that point, you're still guessing if the contact was made with the foot entirely on the ground outside the box when contact was made. Was the foot still in the air when contact was made? Did he do a quick step after making contact? There is no way you saw that conclusively.

If you're tracking the pitch properly, and watching where the ball went, then looking at the feet, there is no way to conclusively tell if contact with the ball was made with the foot outside of the box. On a routine pitch and batted ball, if you're doing your job correctly, you won't ever see both at the same time. Are you going to peak at the foot on a hot shot down the line where you have fair/foul? Or what about about a line drive that you have catch/no catch?

No, don't grab it unless you are 100% sure.

Grayhawk has it right. That play is pretty much what the rule is for.

[Velho]

23 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

No, don't grab it unless you are 100% sure.

I'm with you.

 

24 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

If you're tracking the pitch properly, and watching where the ball went, then looking at the feet, there is no way to conclusively tell if contact with the ball was made with the foot outside of the box.

What's so hard about seeing them all at the same time?

[MadMax]

16 minutes ago, Velho said:

 

I'd love to be a chameleon umpire! I'd blend in with the backstop for sure! 

...

... 

... I'll settle for a "cloaking tech" umpire shirt. 

Can't hit (or yell at) what you can't see! 🫣

[834k3r]

1 minute ago, MadMax said:

I'll settle for a "cloaking tech" umpire shirt. 

Unless it was navy.

[grayhawk]

18 hours ago, MadMax said:

I'd love to be a chameleon umpire! I'd blend in with the backstop for sure! 

Gives new meaning to being "part of the field", doesn't it?

[stevis]

On 6/28/2024 at 11:25 AM, grayhawk said:

I've called this once in 15 years, and it was on a bunt where I had time to see the batter's foot on the plate as he squared.

Three times in almost 20, twice on the same kid last year in fall ball doing exactly that.

The other time, the kid put his toe about the point of the plate--foot pointing at the pitcher.  Couldn't miss it.

This is the pic I use in training to point out why you're not calling this until it's an elephant call: