Preparatory to Set Position in Pitching (Rule 5.07 a2)

[Murphy25]

Hey all,

Ran into an issue in my son's 10U game the other night. With runners on base, the pitcher for the other team would engage the rubber in the set position with hands together, bypassing the preparatory position as required by the rule (Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side; from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 5.07(a)(2)).

Upon seeing this, I pointed it out to the umpire and he acknowledge this is illegal and explained it to the pitcher. However, the pitcher continued to start his engagement from the set position with the umpire having to call time several times. 

I typed all of that to get to this. Should a balk have been called for every offense after the initial warning?

[Tborze]

Are there even balks in 10U?                 Was he quick pitching?  
Did it affect your sons stats? 
How did you point it out to the ump?    
Day or night game?                                               
 

 

 

[Murphy25]

Yes, they call balks at 10U. They play full OBR. In some instances, yes, there was a quick pitch involved. I knew the rule for coming to a set position and referenced it to the umpire, but don't see anything in the rule about balks, which is why I'm asking the question. 

Does day/night game really matter?

[BigBlue4u]

5 minutes ago, Murphy25 said:

Yes, they call balks at 10U. They play full OBR. In some instances, yes, there was a quick pitch involved. I knew the rule for coming to a set position and referenced it to the umpire, but don't see anything in the rule about balks, which is why I'm asking the question. 

Does day/night game really matter?

Murph..that's a standard umpire joke when explaining a play situation.

[Murphy25]

1 minute ago, BigBlue4u said:

Murph..that's a standard umpire joke when explaining a play situation.

😁

[ousafe]

@Murphy25 to answer your question, no that is not a balk.  It is a "don't do that".  "Time" is the correct call.  If the player deliberately continues, then...well...eject. But, ... 10U.  So some discretion is probably in order.

This exact topic has been discussed in other threads here.

[MadMax]

14 minutes ago, Murphy25 said:

Does day/night game really matter?

Does calling a Balk, for this… 

38 minutes ago, Murphy25 said:

However, the pitcher continued to start his engagement from the set position with the umpire having to call time several times. 

… really matter? At… let’s see if I can emphasize this a bit… ah… here… 

… 10U??!! 

There are several methods to adjudicate an amateur baseball game, and Context is a significant component of this. These kids are developing, and will be developing for several more years. The umpire in your game utilized the Correction-by-(Contextual)-Guidance method. The method you were suggesting – the Correction-by-Punitive-Measures (AKA Correction-by-Unyielding-Enforcement, AKA Correction-by-Repetitive-Penalty) method – would have done little more than frustrate and made the gameplay nearly unbearable. It wasn’t like the kid was picking guys off repeatedly, or this was some kind of District / Region / State championship. 

10U. 

I’d be happy that all the kids had fun, learned something, and made it to the burger joint / ice cream stand before it closed. 🍦 

[Jimurray]

10 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Does calling a Balk, for this… 

… really matter? At… let’s see if I can emphasize this a bit… ah… here… 

… 10U??!! 

There are several methods to adjudicate an amateur baseball game, and Context is a significant component of this. These kids are developing, and will be developing for several more years. The umpire in your game utilized the Correction-by-(Contextual)-Guidance method. The method you were suggesting – the Correction-by-Punitive-Measures (AKA Correction-by-Unyielding-Enforcement, AKA Correction-by-Repetitive-Penalty) method – would have done little more than frustrate and made the gameplay nearly unbearable. It wasn’t like the kid was picking guys off repeatedly, or this was some kind of District / Region / State championship. 

10U. 

I’d be happy that all the kids had fun, learned something, and made it to the burger joint / ice cream stand before it closed. 🍦 

Just to be clear, this is a "do not do that" at any OBR level. It has been called even at the MLB level where the pitcher argued the request to have one hand at his side and he was ejected.

[Velho]

Intentionality is important, especially at this age. Exploring our motivations and goals can help. #WhyDoWePlay

https://www.108baseballstories.com/parents.html

https://twitter.com/108ballstories

 

[ArchAngel72]

What rule set and or league is this in?

LL?

Cal Ripken?

AAU?

[Jimurray]

23 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

What rule set and or league is this in?

LL?

Cal Ripken?

AAU?

The rule set cite is from OBR. It used to be 8.01(b) and still is in LL. But LL never added the "Preparatory" wording when OBR did. 

[Coach Carl]

Genuine question, not rhetorical:  Is the stretch actually required? 

From 5.07(a)(2) as referenced by the OP:

Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as “the stretch.” But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter.

 

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

@Murphy25...Hey Murph, you said you "pointed it out to the umpire", yes? Were you serving in a coaching capacity of some kind? If so, please make sure that's a question, "Hey Blue, is that a balk there?" (Obviously, the answer is no or he would have called something...but, a question is more courteous) and not a statement, "Hey Blue, that's a balk!"

If you are not serving the game in a coaching capacity, you should of course not be speaking to the umpire directly about this or anything else. Take that to the coach and let them engage the umpire appropriately. Not a sermon...just a thought...

~Dawg

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Coach Carl said:

Genuine question, not rhetorical:  Is the stretch actually required? 

From 5.07(a)(2) as referenced by the OP:

Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as “the stretch.” But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter.

 

 

You don’t have to stretch but you do need to have hands apart and then put them together. 

[ArchAngel72]

16 hours ago, Jimurray said:

The rule set cite is from OBR. It used to be 8.01(b) and still is in LL. But LL never added the "Preparatory" wording when OBR did. 

 I get that but maybe they are going by what someone stated the league uses.  Most lower levels to my knowledge use OBR as a base and then they tweak things to what they want for lower age groups. Some of them More heavy handed than  others..