Runner error

[Daniel1961]

2 outs runner on 2nd and 3rd batter at the plate no count ,pitcher pitches ball it’s a passed ball runner on 3 is attempting to steal home , batter is in batter box ump tells batter to move batter drops the bat takes off towards first , runner on 3rd scores , before batter reaches first , catcher throws ball to first , batter rounds 1st while runner on 2nd rounds 3rd headed to home , first base throws to second , umpire calls runner on 3rd out , since it was the closest one to home , How should it be , who’s out ,does anyone score , who bats to lead off the next inning

[Velho]

Is this what you are saying?

2 outs. Runners on 2nd (what we call "R2") and 3rd ("R3"). No count.

Pitch is a passed ball which did not hit the batter or bat. R3 comes home and scores.

Batter runs to first. Catcher throws to first. No umpire signal given. Batter continues to second base. Ball now thrown to second base. R2 touches and rounds third for home.

Umpire calls R2 out for batters interference to end the inning.

If so, and taking all that at face value, R3 scores and the batter is out since there were 2 outs at the time of interference. The next batter in the lineup is at bat the next offensive inning.

 

There is a series of decisions that led to this unlikely ruling that only the ump could speak to so I'll just ask one question of you (assuming you weren't the ump): what level of play was this?

 

[noumpere]

Hard to follow, but I think the play stands.

[mac266]

I'm still trying to figure out why the batter was running.

[Coach Carl]

9 hours ago, mac266 said:

I'm still trying to figure out why the batter was running.

Because the umpire said, "Move."  No good deed goes unpunished!

[Lou B]

No count on the batter and a passed ball, ball one!

Ump tells batter to move and he starts running the bases.  The catcher should know the count, throwing to fist was a mistake.  Where/why was interference called?

[SeeingEyeDog]

Funny how this baseball machine works...I've been meaning to post something related to this topic. Sorry for the post hi-jack, OP...

When you have a passed ball by F2 and a lefty batter is not moving out of the box and F3 is trying to score...how do you guys take this? I have seen PUs yell, "Clear out!" with his hands out at his sides helping move the batter out of the way. This was a 14U travel league summer game. Any variances here for V, JV and on down?

~Dawg

[Velho]

5 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

lefty batter is not moving out of the box and F3 is trying to score...how do you guys take this?

"Get a date on your own time kid. We're playing baseball here."

[SeeingEyeDog]

12 minutes ago, Velho said:

"Get a date on your own time kid. We're playing baseball here."

Bro...can you ask me to put on my sunglasses next time before you blind me with your comic brilliance? Well played, sir...I owe you a beer...😎

~Dawg

[Velho]

The F3 / R3 typo @SeeingEyeDog, I couldn't resist.

[MadMax]

On 4/12/2024 at 7:21 PM, Daniel1961 said:

2 outs runner on 2nd and 3rd batter at the plate no count ,pitcher pitches ball it’s a passed ball runner on 3 is attempting to steal home , batter is in batter box ump tells batter to move batter drops the bat takes off towards first , runner on 3rd scores , before batter reaches first , catcher throws ball to first , batter rounds 1st while runner on 2nd rounds 3rd headed to home , first base throws to second , umpire calls runner on 3rd out , since it was the closest one to home , How should it be , who’s out ,does anyone score , who bats to lead off the next inning

I don’t see a proper or defined stop (period) or a pause (comma), for that matter. 

Must have been a Balk call. 

[Vegas_Ump]

A couple of points to add some zest to the stew.

Since it was a passed ball, there is no "Batter Interference" possible.  You CAN have garden variety, definitional Offensive Interference.

To that point, what play was interfered with and by whom?  And why did B4 decide to turn himself into a batter-runner in the first place?

Answer those, and you can then determine penalties and who does/does not score.

Mike

Las Vegas

[SeeingEyeDog]

12 hours ago, MadMax said:

I don’t see a proper or defined stop (period) or a pause (comma), for that matter. 

Must have been a Balk call. 

He ABSOLUTELY balked with his grammar, syntax AND spelling...hey, it happens...

~Dawg

[beerguy55]

Pretty sure this one wasn't AI generated.

 

 

[beerguy55]

On 4/12/2024 at 10:46 PM, Velho said:

Is this what you are saying?

2 outs. Runners on 2nd (what we call "R2") and 3rd ("R3"). No count.

Pitch is a passed ball which did not hit the batter or bat. R3 comes home and scores.

Batter runs to first. Catcher throws to first. No umpire signal given. Batter continues to second base. Ball now thrown to second base. R2 touches and rounds third for home.

Umpire calls R2 out for batters interference to end the inning.

If so, and taking all that at face value, R3 scores and the batter is out since there were 2 outs at the time of interference. The next batter in the lineup is at bat the next offensive inning.

 

There is a series of decisions that led to this unlikely ruling that only the ump could speak to so I'll just ask one question of you (assuming you weren't the ump): what level of play was this?

 

In this odd hypothetical, R2 is called out due to the batter's actions (INT) - if that is the case then that batter is up to start the next inning - they never became a runner (officially).   

If you're calling the batter out instead of R2, then the batter made the third out (the fact that he ran all the way to second is irrelevant...he was never a runner - he's still a batter) - then wouldn't no runs score?

There shouldn't be any INT on the play at all....as this goat show played out, score the run, stick R2 at third and put the batter back in the box.

[Velho]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

If you're calling the batter out instead of R2, then the batter made the third out (the fact that he ran all the way to second is irrelevant...he was never a runner - he's still a batter) - then wouldn't no runs score?

Fair but thinking about it Batter was aiding Goat2 R2 at this point not R3. Based on the OP, R3 was ruled to score without INT from Batter. Only after R3 scored was R2 called out for Batter INT

[Velho]

@Daniel1961 what level of play was this?

[beerguy55]

44 minutes ago, Velho said:

Fair but thinking about it Batter was aiding Goat2 R2 at this point not R3. Based on the OP, R3 was ruled to score without INT from Batter. Only after R3 scored was R2 called out for Batter INT

The issue I'm raising is if the batter is the one called out for INT. If batter is called out, he's the third out...and he never reached first base (he never even became a runner)...by strict interpretation of the rule R3's run doesn't count.  It's all one continuous playing action from the pitch to the throw to F3 to the throw to F4/6.   Is it TOI or TOP?  Does it matter?  Not to mention, are we really ruling the batter did NOT interfere when he ran to first, but did once he headed to second?

If R2 is called out for batter's action, as the closest runner to home, then there's no issue...it's a time play.  R3's run scores...however, batter bats the next inning because he wasn't called out, and he never became a runner in the scenario.

 

Edit: let's play it out a different way.   Passed ball, and batter gets out of the way...throw from F2 goes past F1; R3 scores and now R2 tries to advance...as F6 throws home the batter now gets in F2's way to make the play, and the ump rules INT.

Is the batter called out or is the runner called out?  Pretty sure with two out it's the batter.   If the batter, does him being the third out negate the first run that scored on the play?

 

[Velho]

I follow you @beerguy55. I'd argue TOI.

Exercise to explore this:

Baseline: 2 outs, R3, batter interferes with Fielder --> Batter is ruled as the third out, no runs scores.

Scenario: 2 outs, R3, R2, wild pitch, R3 advances home cleanly with no batter INT. Then R2 advances for home and Batter interferes. (Plausible example: wild pitch that goes up 3B line, batter loitering around home plate, R3 scores standing up (no play - no INT). Then R2 goes for home too while batter is still loitering and batter interferes with throw from F2 to F1.

Batter is ruled out for INT.

One run or no runs score?

[beerguy55]

1 minute ago, Velho said:

Batter is ruled out for INT.

One run or no runs score?

LOL - I must have added my edit the same time you posted.  I have the same question.  I genuinely don't know the answer.  I suspect it's TOI and the first run counts, but won't be surprised if neither run counts.

[Tog Gee]

15 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Edit: let's play it out a different way.   Passed ball, and batter gets out of the way...throw from F2 goes past F1; R3 scores and now R2 tries to advance...as F6 throws home the batter now gets in F2's way to make the play, and the ump rules INT.

Is the batter called out or is the runner called out?  Pretty sure with two out it's the batter.   If the batter, does him being the third out negate the first run that scored on the play?

With 2 outs batter is out. Run doesn't count if batter interferes with play at the plate.

Edited April 16 by Tog Gee

[Tog Gee]

Interference: [action] "which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play"

 

Are y'all feeling that the batter out there running the bases is interference? Having a hard time tracking this thread...

 

[beerguy55]

Just now, Tog Gee said:

With 2 outs batter is out. Run doesn't count if batter interferes with play at the plate.

Yes, we've established that.  The run doesn't count because the batter made the third out.  The question is whether or not both runs on the same play would be negated by that third out, or just the one where he actually interfered.

[beerguy55]

17 minutes ago, Tog Gee said:

Interference: [action] "which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play"

 

Are y'all feeling that the batter out there running the bases is interference? Having a hard time tracking this thread...

 

It's been established by most here that it likely shouldn't be INT, but an umpire COULD call it under the "confuses" parameter...that would be their judgment. The discussion is more about what happens next - which runs score, and who bats first next inning.

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Yes, we've established that.  The run doesn't count because the batter made the third out.  The question is whether or not both runs on the same play would be negated by that third out, or just the one where he actually interfered.

Both.

Just like, bases loaded, batter hits triple, then is called our for missing first.

[Velho]

27 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Just like, bases loaded, batter hits triple, then is called our for missing first.

Not applicable. That is batter-runner. OP is only a batter.