2 things same game pitch count and also when does the at bat count? LL 12U

[ArchAngel72]

So 1st issue 

2nd inning R3, 2 outs

Batter earns ball 4 on a WP, He due to R3 coming home, albeit slow, backs up instead of going to 1st.  R3 comes in just a bit late and the relay to the pitcher gets him OUT by about 6 inches.

3rd Out teams go to dugouts and start to get into the next half inning.  The now Defensive Mgr. comes over and asks did that at bat count?   He never got ball 4 but he never got to 1st?

/facepalm..  Why do I get these odd ball things.. Sigh

I talk it thru to myself. Ball 4 he earns 1st base.   Past ball gets R3 out at the plate after that.  Well coach he earned 1st base as far as I am concerned that concluded his at bat and he should be scored at 1st base due to a walk. Therefore the fact he did not reach 1st base because of the out at the plate does not figure into that to me.   Next batter after him should be up next inning, Not him..  So that's how we did that.

Was I wrong?

 

Next issues #2

VT catcher catches 2 innings, Then in the 3rd they put him out there to Pitch ( OK legal so far as he did not catch in the 4th inning as it was not happened)

Then after 1 inning and 21 pitches they put him back at catcher.

scratching my head, only ruling I know of is that they cannot got past 40 pitches and catch ( or finish the batter that they are facing when they hit 40 pitches ) 

So to me he was fine to catch after his one inning out there on the mound..

 

/Shakes head, why is it always the strangest things in LL ?

 

So anything wrong there on #2?

 

 

[Velho]

Once it's ball 4, they are now a batter-runner. End of AB (and meets LL minimum since inning ended after completing his AB).

Unless the player started the last batter faced with more than 19 pitches, you handled it correctly.

 

[noumpere]

38 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

So 1st issue 

2nd inning R3, 2 outs

Batter earns ball 4 on a WP, He due to R3 coming home, albeit slow, backs up instead of going to 1st.  R3 comes in just a bit late and the relay to the pitcher gets him OUT by about 6 inches.

3rd Out teams go to dugouts and start to get into the next half inning.  The now Defensive Mgr. comes over and asks did that at bat count?   He never got ball 4 but he never got to 1st?

/facepalm..  Why do I get these odd ball things.. Sigh

I talk it thru to myself. Ball 4 he earns 1st base.   Past ball gets R3 out at the plate after that.  Well coach he earned 1st base as far as I am concerned that concluded his at bat and he should be scored at 1st base due to a walk. Therefore the fact he did not reach 1st base because of the out at the plate does not figure into that to me.   Next batter after him should be up next inning, Not him..  So that's how we did that.

Was I wrong?

 

 

 

 

(c) Completing Time at Bat
A batter has legally completed his time at bat when he is put out or
becomes a runner.

 

The later happened, so.....

[ArchAngel72]

31 minutes ago, Velho said:

Once it's ball 4, they are now a batter-runner. End of AB (and meets LL minimum since inning ended after completing his AB).

Unless the player started the last batter faced with more than 19 pitches, you handled it correctly.

 

 

Yeah 20 hmm well he did ok he started that last at bat with I am guessing 17

but here is the odd thing check this "NOTE" that is 2 sections lower.  I wonder if that's a typo

 

[Velho]

That is confusing. I think they over explained it. Note the "and is not covered under the threshold exception" after the 41 pitches part. That all means the same thing as above: Start under a threshold, pass it during the last batter, and you count as not having crossed the threshold.

[834k3r]

I have the same as you on both situations, @ArchAngel72.

[Jimurray]

4 hours ago, Velho said:

That is confusing. I think they over explained it. Note the "and is not covered under the threshold exception" after the 41 pitches part. That all means the same thing as above: Start under a threshold, pass it during the last batter, and you count as not having crossed the threshold.

I think one applies to a pitcher who was a catcher going back to catch. The other applies to a pitcher going to catch for the first time.

[Velho]

3 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I think one applies to a pitcher who was a catcher going back to catch. The other applies to a pitcher going to catch for the first time.

Agreed Jimurray. Pitcher to catcher is a "soft" 40 pitches limit. Catcher to Pitcher to Catcher is a "soft" 20 pitch limit. [the 20 was added a few years ago to close the loophole that allowed 3 innings catcher, pitch 40, and then go catch again].

The confusion is if it's always a soft number (i.e. cross the threshold during the last batter) or a firm pitch count (like NFHS rest thresholds).

[stevis]

Nailed 'em both.

[beerguy55]

8 hours ago, Velho said:

Agreed Jimurray. Pitcher to catcher is a "soft" 40 pitches limit. Catcher to Pitcher to Catcher is a "soft" 20 pitch limit. [the 20 was added a few years ago to close the loophole that allowed 3 innings catcher, pitch 40, and then go catch again].

The confusion is if it's always a soft number (i.e. cross the threshold during the last batter) or a firm pitch count (like NFHS rest thresholds).

I have to admit I'm confused...the rule mentions this exception of crossing that threshold during the last batter, saying the pitcher can remain eligible to catch...and then it says "until" one of four things happen...and all four of those things effectively render the exception moot. (basically - how I read the rule - it says the pitcher is still eligible to catch until the at bat or the inning is over, or the pitcher is removed...so how is the pitcher supposed to catch if one of those things doesn't occur?)

Or is this just a really badly written rule?

[Velho]

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Or is this just a really badly written rule?

Yes, that's what it is.