BU Ejection

[834k3r]

This weekend, worked a 13U travel ball tournament. Ruleset was a hybrid of OBR/NFHS. Importantly, the tournament adopted the NFHS force-play/slide rule, but not the base blocking limits.

Situation:  R1 starts an attempted steal of 2B. F2 throws to F6 (whose foot was on the 1B side of 2b--not kneeling), who applies the tag. BU (I was PU) is in deep B, and located well for the play. BU calls R1 out. OHC asks for time (which I grant) and asks to talk to me about it. I direct him to the BU.

I was unable to hear the conversation, but the BU told me after the game the OHC wanted obstruction called.  Because of the OBR rule, R1 had access to the bag and no obstruction was warranted. OHC said to BU "how much is [the tournament director] paying you?"

Immediate ejection by the BU.

OHC came up to the BU after the game and apologized.

[Replacematt]

28 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

This weekend, worked a 13U travel ball tournament. Ruleset was a hybrid of OBR/NFHS. Importantly, the tournament adopted the NFHS force-play/slide rule, but not the base blocking limits.

Situation:  R1 starts an attempted steal of 2B. F2 throws to F6 (whose foot was on the 1B side of 2b--not kneeling), who applies the tag. BU (I was PU) is in deep B, and located well for the play. BU calls R1 out. OHC asks for time (which I grant) and asks to talk to me about it. I direct him to the BU.

I was unable to hear the conversation, but the BU told me after the game the OHC wanted obstruction called.  Because of the OBR rule, R1 had access to the bag and no obstruction was warranted. OHC said to BU "how much is [the tournament director] paying you?"

Immediate ejection by the BU.

OHC came up to the BU after the game and apologized.

I'm not sure what FPSR has to do with this situation.

I'm also not sure what the OC meant by that comment. 

[Catch18]

I'm not sure what FPSR has to do with this situation.
I'm also not sure what the OC meant by that comment. 

Probably to be followed by some version of, “well, he should get his money back then.”

[834k3r]

4 hours ago, Matt said:

I'm not sure what FPSR has to do with this situation.

I'm also not sure what the OC meant by that comment. 

I only mentioned it to add amplification to the fact it was a hybrid rules tournament (NFHS for FPSR; OBR for obstruction). Sorry if it added confusion instead of clarity.

[LRZ]

Hybrid rules. As if umpiring different rule sets wasn't difficult enough....

[MadMax]

3 hours ago, LRZ said:

Hybrid rules.

OBR for authenticity and excitement, NFHS for… you know… safety. 🫣

[boyinr]

2 minutes ago, MadMax said:

OBR for authenticity and excitement, NFHS for… you know… safety. 🫣

And participation.  

 

 

[The Man in Blue]

... and that is why I refuse to call baseball tournaments around me in Illinois.  They never know what rules they are using.

[MadMax]

23 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

They never know what rules they are using.

Real easy way to address and/or remedy this. It's called communication, in the form of actual published rules, and employing Site UICs or Umpire Supervisors who have the latitude (and prerogative, it is a two-way street) to stipulate, interpret, and apply said rules. 

I've worked all over the country doing various levels and types of tournament baseball, and if there's anything that typically differentiates one from another, in terms of success, it's the situation handling by umpires and tournament staff – cooperating together – especially when it comes to rules interpretation and application.

Far too often, though, tournament staff skimp on (additional) umpires, trying to maximize profits or just blindly hire umpires and assume that they're "good to go" for the entire span of the tournament. Conversely, there are some umpires who bristle against any tournament staff telling us "how to do our job".

[Mudisfun]

30 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Real easy way to address and/or remedy this. It's called communication, in the form of actual published rules, and employing Site UICs or Umpire Supervisors who have the latitude (and prerogative, it is a two-way street) to stipulate, interpret, and apply said rules. 

I've worked all over the country doing various levels and types of tournament baseball, and if there's anything that typically differentiates one from another, in terms of success, it's the situation handling by umpires and tournament staff – cooperating together – especially when it comes to rules interpretation and application.

Far too often, though, tournament staff skimp on (additional) umpires, trying to maximize profits or just blindly hire umpires and assume that they're "good to go" for the entire span of the tournament. Conversely, there are some umpires who bristle against any tournament staff telling us "how to do our job".

Your mouth, my ears.

Was assigned a tournament last weekend. Reached out to the assignor and asked a few days prior some real basic questions: what rule set? any modifications? time limits/no new inning limit? run rules? Heard absolutely zero back from them... thankfully they had a TD at the field and we experienced zero issues, but it would be nice to know what we are getting into more that 10 minutes prior to game time. I even went on the tournament web site and of course they don't list any of the rules they will be playing under there to make life easy.

As for the partners... day 1, my partner was awesome. Great guy, knew his stuff, had clean clothes even! Day two... man, I really missed my day one partner! Shows up 10 minutes to game time, dirty clothes, bad mechanics, etc... 

I love it when the TD's see us as partners. I am not there to be "in charge" but to umpire their game. If I am using the wrong rule set, or they want to handle a situation (other then an EJ) in some way which has no impact to how I am administering the game, why would I care? 

[834k3r]

35 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Your mouth, my ears.

Was assigned a tournament last weekend. Reached out to the assignor and asked a few days prior some real basic questions: what rule set? any modifications? time limits/no new inning limit? run rules? Heard absolutely zero back from them... thankfully they had a TD at the field and we experienced zero issues, but it would be nice to know what we are getting into more that 10 minutes prior to game time. I even went on the tournament web site and of course they don't list any of the rules they will be playing under there to make life easy.

As for the partners... day 1, my partner was awesome. Great guy, knew his stuff, had clean clothes even! Day two... man, I really missed my day one partner! Shows up 10 minutes to game time, dirty clothes, bad mechanics, etc... 

I love it when the TD's see us as partners. I am not there to be "in charge" but to umpire their game. If I am using the wrong rule set, or they want to handle a situation (other then an EJ) in some way which has no impact to how I am administering the game, why would I care? 

I think you're insinuating what I see as the bigger issue. I think people think putting tournaments on is easy:  pay the umps, collect the team fees, get some cheap medals and t-shirts for the winners, and done. There's so much more to having a well-organized, well-played, well-officiated tournament.

For example:  the TD for the tournament in my story was actually one of the team managers. If his team wasn't playing, he was not at the field.

[Mudisfun]

16 hours ago, 834k3r said:

I think you're insinuating what I see as the bigger issue. I think people think putting tournaments on is easy:  pay the umps, collect the team fees, get some cheap medals and t-shirts for the winners, and done. There's so much more to having a well-organized, well-played, well-officiated tournament.

For example:  the TD for the tournament in my story was actually one of the team managers. If his team wasn't playing, he was not at the field.

I think we are on the same page. Many of the tournaments where I live in So Cal are very well ran; and they should be at a $1000 a pop per team and playing in what is basically baseball mecca. BUT there are those other ones... No one, coaches, umpires or players know what actual rules we're playing under or any special additions; this is nerve racking enough. Then throw in the partners who are there just to get paid with no consideration to communication with their partners or how we are perceived on or off the field and it makes for a long weekend.

[Dottelife]

834k34 is spot on. I have umped tournaments, UIC tournaments and ran a tournament. Running a tournament is Friday morning to Sunday night in 90 plus degree heat getting no sleep and the only break is when you take a leak. Friday afternoon is mowing, dragging, chalking the fields and unloading concession truck delivery. Teams play Friday night, hope all umps and workers show, record scores, deal with any coaches, show up to gate to explain why we charge a $5 entry fee for the 20th time and update website scores. After games drag field, chalk for morning games, empty trash lock up and leave around midnight. Saturday show up at 7am hope umps show up for 8 am start and 17 hours later repeat process. Getting umps is hard and good umps are a blessing. The feeling knowing I can put an ump on a field and he will handle it like a pro is priceless. 

[ErichKeane]

9 hours ago, Dottelife said:

834k34 is spot on. I have umped tournaments, UIC tournaments and ran a tournament. Running a tournament is Friday morning to Sunday night in 90 plus degree heat getting no sleep and the only break is when you take a leak. Friday afternoon is mowing, dragging, chalking the fields and unloading concession truck delivery. Teams play Friday night, hope all umps and workers show, record scores, deal with any coaches, show up to gate to explain why we charge a $5 entry fee for the 20th time and update website scores. After games drag field, chalk for morning games, empty trash lock up and leave around midnight. Saturday show up at 7am hope umps show up for 8 am start and 17 hours later repeat process. Getting umps is hard and good umps are a blessing. The feeling knowing I can put an ump on a field and he will handle it like a pro is priceless. 

I've definitely observed this, the SDs/TDs seem to work their butt off before, and after the games.  One thing that seems to frustrate them is when there is an 'ump area' and the umps don't use it, and either meet up at their cars (or even off-site!).  Not being positive until game-time that your umps are there seems to be the most stressful part for them that I see.  An umpire that will show up reliably and early (AND check in), and handle their games without intervention is a giant relief for them.

 

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, ErichKeane said:

One thing that seems to frustrate them is when there is an 'ump area' and the umps don't use it,

Understandable. 

With that said, the “umpire area” must have several components to it or readily accessible that umpires need: 

• Must be private
• Must be secure
• Must have or be near bathroom facilities
• Must not be within hearing distance of attending public
• Must be civilly tidy; don’t stick us in the maintenance shed with the clay, diamond dry, and the drag tractor

Oh sure, we’d love it if it was stocked with water and snacks, and it’s got power outlets, and is air conditioned… but it doesn’t necessarily have to have those. We can always bring our own water and food, we really don’t need power outlets that badly, and a big ol cheap box fan will do in a pinch… but what we cannot compromise on is security (regarding our stuff) and privacy (we are often in states of undress, and we tend to be a crass lot who vent from time to time). 

Why would we want to walk back and forth from field to parking lot around 100-200 yards each way, instead of 30 yards from a shaded room or other structure? Because our privacy and our stuff matters that much to us. 
 

Add: Oh, and before someone says, “Hey! How am I supposed to carry all this stuff to the umpire area / room from the parking lot??”, do you now see why I’m a big fan of those cheap, robust tyvek IKEA bags?? 

[Mudisfun]

13 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Understandable. 

With that said, the “umpire area” must have several components to it or readily accessible that umpires need: 

• Must be private
• Must be secure
• Must have or be near bathroom facilities
• Must not be within hearing distance of attending public
• Must be civilly tidy; don’t stick us in the maintenance shed with the clay, diamond dry, and the drag tractor

Oh sure, we’d love it if it was stocked with water and snacks, and it’s got power outlets, and is air conditioned… but it doesn’t necessarily have to have those. We can always bring our own water and food, we really don’t need power outlets that badly, and a big ol cheap box fan will do in a pinch… but what we cannot compromise on is security (regarding our stuff) and privacy (we are often in states of undress, and we tend to be a crass lot who vent from time to time). 

Why would we want to walk back and forth from field to parking lot around 100-200 yards each way, instead of 30 yards from a shaded room or other structure? Because our privacy and our stuff matters that much to us. 
 

Add: Oh, and before someone says, “Hey! How am I supposed to carry all this stuff to the umpire area / room from the parking lot??”, do you now see why I’m a big fan of those cheap, robust tyvek IKEA bags?? 

You forgot the #1 item on this list... If there is a place set aside by the TD for us... TELL US ABOUT IT like, you know, the day before! You should be also telling us the rule sets and other tournament info we should be aware of prior to us walking up, but this one might be too tall an ask.

Telling me about this umpire area after I'm parked, set up, changed out and walking to the field, especially if were working a 4 game set back to back to back to back with maybe 20-30 minutes between games to walk to the car and change out, cool off, hydrate, use a bottle (if your an umpire, you understand this comment) and then walk back leaves us no time to pack our crap and move to your umpire space.

I think I would hug the TD who actually made available a space for us like MM described above. But here in So Cal, more often than not, the tournament is co-opting a HS field and every thing is locked down tight with the TD having no access to anything other than the pad locks surrounding the field and maybe if lucky, the chalk box to put lines on the field.

 

 

[beerguy55]

22 hours ago, MadMax said:

With that said, the “umpire area” must have several components to it or readily accessible that umpires need: 

• Must be private
• Must be secure
• Must have or be near bathroom facilities
• Must not be within hearing distance of attending public
• Must be civilly tidy; don’t stick us in the maintenance shed with the clay, diamond dry, and the drag tractor

Any tournaments I ran we had an RV provided for the umps - full power, AC, stocked fridge, couch/table, usable bathroom...and adult bevvies at the end of the day.

[ErichKeane]

17 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Any tournaments I ran we had an RV provided for the umps - full power, AC, stocked fridge, couch/table, usable bathroom...and adult bevvies at the end of the day.

Thats really neat!  The tourney I've been attending at SOME of their sites have a good ump room, though others don't (so it is understandable that folks skip them!).

[Dottelife]

On 7/21/2022 at 8:38 AM, ErichKeane said:

I've definitely observed this, the SDs/TDs seem to work their butt off before, and after the games.  One thing that seems to frustrate them is when there is an 'ump area' and the umps don't use it, and either meet up at their cars (or even off-site!).  Not being positive until game-time that your umps are there seems to be the most stressful part for them that I see.  An umpire that will show up reliably and early (AND check in), and handle their games without intervention is a giant relief for them.

 

I set up a room in our building that has A/C and fenced off from the public. What irritated me is they would not use it, they would rather sit in a chair under a tree behind their cars lol. 

[MadMax]

45 minutes ago, Dottelife said:

I set up a room in our building that has A/C and fenced off from the public. What irritated me is they would not use it, they would rather sit in a chair under a tree behind their cars lol. 

Well, on behalf of umpires elsewhere, I thank you. 

Perhaps email / text-cast to the umpire roster a day or so beforehand that the room is available. Reiterate it is cooled, private, and secure. 

If it still isn’t being used, then there are likely two other reasons – smoking 🚬 or … 🍺. 

[Mudisfun]

On 7/22/2022 at 6:48 AM, beerguy55 said:

Any tournaments I ran we had an RV provided for the umps - full power, AC, stocked fridge, couch/table, usable bathroom...and adult bevvies at the end of the day.

You are and will always be welcome in So Cal! Let me know when you are setting up shop!

[Catch18]

Any tournaments I ran we had an RV provided for the umps - full power, AC, stocked fridge, couch/table, usable bathroom...and adult bevvies at the end of the day.

Pft, I’m not waiting for the TDs to do it. Life goal: retire early, have my own RV, stock my own beer, AC, grill, bed for run rule naps, etc. Just travel from tourney to tourney living the dream on the daddy ball circuit.

A boy can dream, right?

[blue32]

On 7/21/2022 at 9:24 AM, MadMax said:

Understandable. 

With that said, the “umpire area” must have several components to it or readily accessible that umpires need: 

• Must be private
• Must be secure
• Must have or be near bathroom facilities
• Must not be within hearing distance of attending public
• Must be civilly tidy; don’t stick us in the maintenance shed with the clay, diamond dry, and the drag tractor

Oh sure, we’d love it if it was stocked with water and snacks, and it’s got power outlets, and is air conditioned… but it doesn’t necessarily have to have those. We can always bring our own water and food, we really don’t need power outlets that badly, and a big ol cheap box fan will do in a pinch… but what we cannot compromise on is security (regarding our stuff) and privacy (we are often in states of undress, and we tend to be a crass lot who vent from time to time). 

Why would we want to walk back and forth from field to parking lot around 100-200 yards each way, instead of 30 yards from a shaded room or other structure? Because our privacy and our stuff matters that much to us. 
 

Add: Oh, and before someone says, “Hey! How am I supposed to carry all this stuff to the umpire area / room from the parking lot??”, do you now see why I’m a big fan of those cheap, robust tyvek IKEA bags?? 

Outstanding post, Max! I’ve often wondered why most of the time we are relegated to changing in the parking lot, when we have the most gear to put on, while basketball and football guys are afforded dressing rooms (oftentimes with shower facilities) at the same schools, with far less to have to put on. 
 

I get that it’s a security thing, and we don’t want a guy that just worked a super tight football or basketball game to have to walk out of the stadium/arena in uniform, becoming a potential target. But why does that not apply to baseball? 

Oh yeah, I know why: $$$$$ 🤬