Running Lane Violation

[aaluck]

Fed rules, high school playoffs. I have searched the book and cannot find the specific penalty for this under 8-4-1g.  I see a specific penalty in 8-4-2, but not 8-4-1--although I 'think' I know the rule.

R1 is breaking for second at the pitch and batter bunts. Catcher fields the ball and throws to first and runner lane interference is called on BR.  Crew gets together and leaves R1 on second. I did not get to talk to them after the game but shouldn't R1 have been sent back to first?

What rule specifically addresses the penalty for runner's lane INT, or is it just addressed as INT under 5-1-1e--although that also does not address other runners? 

[Senor Azul]

NFHS rule 8-2 ART. 9 . . . Each runner shall touch his base after the ball becomes dead. All awarded bases must be touched in their proper order. The runner returns to the base he had reached or passed when the ball became dead. In the event of interference, a runner returns to the base he had legally reached at the time of the interference. If the interference does not cause the batter to be out and any other runner cannot return to the base last legally occupied at the time of the interference, he is advanced to the next base.

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

NFHS rule 8-2 ART. 9 . . . Each runner shall touch his base after the ball becomes dead. All awarded bases must be touched in their proper order. The runner returns to the base he had reached or passed when the ball became dead. In the event of interference, a runner returns to the base he had legally reached at the time of the interference. If the interference does not cause the batter to be out and any other runner cannot return to the base last legally occupied at the time of the interference, he is advanced to the next base.

We should clarify that there is one interference, FPSR, where the rule requires return of runners TOP. 

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, aaluck said:

Fed rules, high school playoffs. I have searched the book and cannot find the specific penalty for this under 8-4-1g.  I see a specific penalty in 8-4-2, but not 8-4-1--although I 'think' I know the rule.

R1 is breaking for second at the pitch and batter bunts. Catcher fields the ball and throws to first and runner lane interference is called on BR.  Crew gets together and leaves R1 on second. I did not get to talk to them after the game but shouldn't R1 have been sent back to first?

What rule specifically addresses the penalty for runner's lane INT, or is it just addressed as INT under 5-1-1e--although that also does not address other runners? 

 

For RLI:

FED:  Return TOI.

OBR:  Return TOP, unless there was an intervening play, then TOI

[aaluck]

1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

In the event of interference, a runner returns to the base he had legally reached at the time of the interference.

Not to split hairs but has he legally obtained second given the INT.

I just have a real hard time rewarding the team that is trying to bunt him to second--by giving him second with the INT.

[Senor Azul]

2010 SITUATION 13: R3 is on third and R2 is on second with no outs. Both runners attempt a double steal. As R3 gets into a rundown between home and third, R2 advances and stays on third base. With R2 on third base, R3 commits interference during the rundown. RULING: The ball is dead immediately. R3 is declared out for the interference. R2 will be kept at third base since he had legally reached third at the time of the interference. (8-2-9, 8-2-8)

2010 SITUATION 15: With one out, R3 is on third base and R2 is at second base when B4 misses the sign for the squeeze bunt. B4 hits a high chopper near first base as R3 touches home plate. F3 fields the ball, touches first to retire B4 and sets to throw to third in an attempt to put out R2 who got a late start going to third base. As F3 releases the throw, B4 intentionally reaches out and hits his arm for obvious interference. RULING: R2 is declared out for the third out due to B4’s interference. R3’s run will count as he had legally acquired home before the interference occurred. (8-4-2g, 8-2-9, 5-1-1e)

[NavyBlue]

Senor Azul, regarding the 2010 Situation 13 caseplay, I thought a base belongs to the runner who last acquired it until he touches his next base, so can R2 "legally" acquire 3B while R3 is still in a rundown?  

If R3 was NOT tagged out in the caseplay on the rundown but returned to 3B and R2 was also on 3B, and both were tagged while on the base, R2 would be out because he could not legally acquire 3B, right?  Therefore, at the instance of interference by R3 during the rundown in the caseplay, 3B becomes open to be acquired (because R3 is now out), but it also seems that at the instance of interference R2 should return to his last legally acquired base, which is 2B.  I'm confused obviously.  

[beerguy55]

 

5 minutes ago, NavyBlue said:

Senor Azul, regarding the 2010 Situation 13 caseplay, I thought a base belongs to the runner who last acquired it until he touches his next base, so can R2 "legally" acquire 3B while R3 is still in a rundown?

May be splitting hairs, but the language is "reached" not "acquired"...I think there's a difference, but it might not matter.

 

It only matters if they're both on the base.  If R3 is hung up between home and third, and R2 is on third base, tagging R2 does NOT result in an out.

Besides that, in the case, R2, assuming he is on or past it, acquires third the moment R3 is out...no matter how....as long as he had reached third "at the time" of interference...not required to be before....it's a simultaneous change.

[maven]

I'm pretty sure R1 hadn't reached 2B at TOI.

[aaluck]

11 minutes ago, maven said:

I'm pretty sure R1 hadn't reached 2B at TOI.

Honestly I didn't see that. I know he was breaking on the pitch and the bunt was pretty good.

However, I think 'he hadn't reached second' is the way to go here. 

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, NavyBlue said:

Senor Azul, regarding the 2010 Situation 13 caseplay, I thought a base belongs to the runner who last acquired it until he touches his next base, so can R2 "legally" acquire 3B while R3 is still in a rundown?  

If R3 was NOT tagged out in the caseplay on the rundown but returned to 3B and R2 was also on 3B, and both were tagged while on the base, R2 would be out because he could not legally acquire 3B, right?  Therefore, at the instance of interference by R3 during the rundown in the caseplay, 3B becomes open to be acquired (because R3 is now out), but it also seems that at the instance of interference R2 should return to his last legally acquired base, which is 2B.  I'm confused obviously.  

OBR is different:

EXAMPLES:
Play: In a rundown between third base and home plate, the runner from second base has
advanced to and is standing on third base when the runner in the rundown is called out for
offensive interference.
Ruling: The umpire shall send the runner standing on third base back to second base. The
reasoning is that third base legally belongs to the runner in the rundown. The following runner
has not legally reached third base at the time of interference and must therefore return to second
base, which is his last legally touched base.