Hit by pitch--what is everyone calling

[aaluck]

I have had this come up three times this year already. But last night a coach was irate (mainly because they were losing 21-4) because I put the other team's guy on first after getting hit (about 12 total got hit).  The kid turned his back and got plunked. BTW, this same coach was mad at his kids for dodging pitches and not 'taking one for the team'.  The pitcher was throwing maybe 60 and the batter could have easily gotten out of the way. This is how my 2018 books reads:

“ART. 4 . . . Permit a pitched ball to touch him.

PENALTY: The batter remains at bat (pitch is a ball or strike) unless pitch was a third strike or ball four.

My reading of this rule means that if he "just" turns his back and 'permits' the ball to hit him he shouldn't get first, according to the reading of the rule. However, thinking back over the past 10 years (HS ball) I can only recall a handful of times when a batter COULD NOT have successfully gotten out of the way of a pitched ball, by ducking, jumping or backing out of the box.

My 'rule' on this is that if the batter is not intentionally trying to get hit he's getting first.  By intentional I mean sticking arm or elbow out, knees over the inside part of the box, etc.

I'm curious as to what everyone else is doing with this rule. How much effort (or lack of effort) to avoid being hit are you guys requiring before awarding first?  

[SH0102]

Don't overthink this...the only things that make "staying at the plate" automatic are an intentional movement into the pitch (as you mentioned) and/or being hit by a pitch that is in the strike zone.

Everything else is a judgment on your part, and I try not to delve too much into intent.  If the guy turns his back, he's going to 1st base.  There is no rule that he must go diving for the hills to get out of the way, or fall down like a sack of potatoes.

The other thing to consider is, was the pitch in the batter's box?  If it was, he's going to 1st (again, unless he moved INTO the pitch).  I am not rewarding a pitcher for throwing a ball 2 feet inside because the batter may have not moved enough.

The rules say a batter can not intentionally let the pitch hit him, but it is very easy to be frozen, because often a batter is striding in preparation for a swing, and so they don't have the balance and footpower to drive off and move quickly.

If you want to rule a slow curveball that was barely inside he didn't move, so you just give a dead-ball ball and not 1st base, fine, but if it is in the batter's box, batter is going to 1st

[Mudisfun]

If the batter is taking a defensive action, then I am ruling HBP and sending to 1st. If the batter preps himself for that hanging curve and is turning into it, then I'm keeping him in the box and calling the pitch as is. In the past 10 years, I think I have kept 3 batters in the box... most players are not that interested in taking it for the team. The ones I notice more willing? The batters who come to the plate attired in more protective gear than what I'm wearing as the PU.

I think we are way overthinking this one. Kind of like the definition of Porn... I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it.

 

[Senor Azul]

We discussed this question just two weeks ago. Here is the link--

 

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 7.3.4 Situation D:  B1 is at bat with a two-ball, no strike count. The batter is fooled by the pitch and did not permit the ball to hit him. The pitch hits B1 in the shoulder. The batter made no other movement. RULING:  B1 is awarded first base.

2005 NFHS Baseball Rule Interpretations SITUATION 11: F1 throws a fastball that tails down the middle of the batter’s box. The pitch freezes B1, who subsequently is hit by the pitch. RULING: The ball is dead. It will be umpire judgment as to whether B1 permitted the pitch to hit him. If, in the judgment of the plate umpire, B1 could not react to the pitch, he will be awarded first base. If the plate umpire judges that B1 allowed the pitch to hit him, a ball will be awarded to B1’s count and he will remain at bat. (7-3-4, 5-1-1a, 8-1-1d Exception)

From the 2016 BRD (section 84, p. 75):

FED Official Interpretation:  McNeely:  Generally speaking, the batter will be awarded first unless he tries to get hit by the pitch. He may not permit the pitch to hit him, but:  “Movement to avoid the pitch may or may not be such an indication.”

[noumpere]

18 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Kind of like the definition of Porn...

 

Those who are wearing more protective equipment stay in the box longer?  I *think* that's what you said

[beerguy55]

As a batter, avoiding a pitch that is coming right at you is harder than it looks - deer in headlights and all that.   Even at "only" 60 mph, assuming 60 feet, they have less than half a second to make a decision.

And even if you are fully qualified to assess whether you as a batter could have avoided the pitch, what you as an adult can do is likely a far cry from what the batter as a child/teen may be able to do, depending on their skill, experience, strength, athleticism.

Batters freeze...batter panic...batters move in the wrong direction, or otherwise make some kind of bad decision because they're reacting, not thinking (twisting, putting their hand up, moving backwards into a pitch that's behind them, ducking for a pitch at their knees, jumping for a pitch at their head, etc)....none of that should be interpreted as "permitting the ball to hit them"...

If you're gonna make a batter stay in the box...you better be damned sure he WANTED to get hit.

[Senor Azul]

the only things that make "staying at the plate" automatic are an intentional movement into the pitch (as you mentioned) and/or being hit by a pitch that is in the strike zone.

There are two other automatic stay-put situations—

2019 FED rule 8-1-1d2 

2. If a batter’s loose garment, such as a shirt that is not worn properly, is touched by a pitched ball, the batter is not entitled to first base.

2019 FED rule 7-2-1b (also rule 5-1-1a-1 and 8-1-1d) ART. 1 . . . A strike is charged to the batter when:

b. a pitch is struck at and missed (even if the pitch touches the batter);

[SH0102]

7 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

the only things that make "staying at the plate" automatic are an intentional movement into the pitch (as you mentioned) and/or being hit by a pitch that is in the strike zone.

There are two other automatic stay-put situations—

2019 FED rule 8-1-1d2 

2. If a batter’s loose garment, such as a shirt that is not worn properly, is touched by a pitched ball, the batter is not entitled to first base.

2019 FED rule 7-2-1b (also rule 5-1-1a-1 and 8-1-1d) ART. 1 . . . A strike is charged to the batter when:

b. a pitch is struck at and missed (even if the pitch touches the batter);

Sorry, I meant given this situation. I forgot about improperly worn uniform, but figured swinging was obvious and different from what OP was asking.

[HokieUmp]

Just last night, had a HS batter really [redacted] up his reaction, and ended up turning to FACE the ball as it came in, and it hit him square in the chest.  I watched him like a hawk, since I really didn't want the sudden-heart-stoppage scenario to come into play.

The pitcher, as the compassionate person he'll grow up to be, wanted to argue the batter offered in that reaction, since he brought the bat around.

"You threw that ball in the middle of the box;  there's NO way you're getting that call."

Dick.

[beerguy55]

14 minutes ago, HokieUmp said:

The pitcher, as the compassionate person he'll grow up to be, wanted to argue the batter offered in that reaction, since he brought the bat around.

"You threw that ball in the middle of the box;  there's NO way you're getting that call."

Dick.

The problem is, another day another ump he IS getting that call.   Been there done that.

[HokieUmp]

1 minute ago, beerguy55 said:

The problem is, another day another ump he IS getting that call.   Been there done that.

You're not wrong. 

Thing is:  A day may come when the courage of the plate guy fails, when we foresake our partners, and break all bonds with the rulebook.  But this was NOT that day.

(I couldn't think up enough stuff for the whole speech, so that's all I got.)

[maven]

Nerd.

[HokieUmp]

7 hours ago, maven said:

Nerd.

..... says the guy that hyperlinks the actual movie scene.

[maven]

7 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

..... says the guy that hyperlinks the actual movie scene.

Oh sure, it takes one to know one. 

That does not undercut the correctness of my diagnosis.

[HokieUmp]

1 hour ago, maven said:

Oh sure, it takes one to know one. 

That does not undercut the correctness of my diagnosis.

Note that I never APPEALED His Honor's verdict.  Rather, I pointed out His Honor's sameness.