Gorilla arm

[Guest David B]

My son is a decent 10u pitcher. He sways his pitching arm back and forth a little while looking at the catcher for the sign. I’m being told this could be considered a balk. Can it? 

[Richvee]

Under high school rules, this is a balk. He cannot swing the pitching arm back and forth while leaning over looking in for a sign. He’s 10, break him if it now before it becomes an issue in high school. You will also find this is inconsistently called at the high school level. He may get away with swinging the arm one day, and get called for the balk a day later by another umpire. 
 

There’s also the slight chance that by the time your son gets to high school , the rule will be changed and conform to other rule sets. But don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen. 

[Senor Azul]

2019-2020 NCAA rule 9-1b Note 1: When taking his sign from the catcher, the pitcher may bend deeply at the waist and have his pitching arm hanging straight down in front of him. The pitcher is not attempting to conceal the ball from the base runner(s).

PENALTY—For violations of 1, a “balk” shall be called.

From the 2016 BRD (section 401, p. 269):

OBR Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  The pitcher in the gorilla stance “has done nothing wrong. His arm may even swing in front of him” before he goes into his stretch.

Play 259-401:  R1. F1 leans forward, peering in for his sign. His pitching hand swings slowly in front of his body. Ruling:  In FED/NCAA, balk. In OBR, no violation.

[Jimurray]

24 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

2019-2020 NCAA rule 9-1b Note 1: When taking his sign from the catcher, the pitcher may bend deeply at the waist and have his pitching arm hanging straight down in front of him. The pitcher is not attempting to conceal the ball from the base runner(s).

PENALTY—For violations of 1, a “balk” shall be called.

From the 2016 BRD (section 401, p. 269):

OBR Official Interpretation:  Wendelstedt:  The pitcher in the gorilla stance “has done nothing wrong. His arm may even swing in front of him” before he goes into his stretch.

Play 259-401:  R1. F1 leans forward, peering in for his sign. His pitching hand swings slowly in front of his body. Ruling:  In FED/NCAA, balk. In OBR, no violation.

FED umpires who call that balk join an exclusive club. I'll leave it up to others to name the club.

[KenBAZ]

It was a POE for Fed a few years ago. I normally find a way to let the kids know to knock it off without a balk. OBR, that's nothing...

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Senor Azul]

2010 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 1: While in the set position, F1 has his pitching hand hanging straight down in front of his body, stationary, as he gets the sign from the catcher. RULING: The use of the “gorilla” stance in the set position is legal provided the arm is not moving. The batter, runner(s) on base, and coaches are able to view the pitcher and the ball and are not placed at a disadvantage. (6-1-3)

2010 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 2: While in the set position, F1 has his pitching hand hanging straight down in front of his body, swinging back and forth, as he gets the sign from the catcher. RULING: This is not legal and is an illegal pitch or a balk if there are runners on base. While this “gorilla” stance is legal if the pitching hand is stationary, it is illegal if the arm is swinging back and forth. (6-1-3)

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 6.1.3 Situation Q:  With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING:  In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

2010 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 1: While in the set position, F1 has his pitching hand hanging straight down in front of his body, stationary, as he gets the sign from the catcher. RULING: The use of the “gorilla” stance in the set position is legal provided the arm is not moving. The batter, runner(s) on base, and coaches are able to view the pitcher and the ball and are not placed at a disadvantage. (6-1-3)

2010 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 2: While in the set position, F1 has his pitching hand hanging straight down in front of his body, swinging back and forth, as he gets the sign from the catcher. RULING: This is not legal and is an illegal pitch or a balk if there are runners on base. While this “gorilla” stance is legal if the pitching hand is stationary, it is illegal if the arm is swinging back and forth. (6-1-3)

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 6.1.3 Situation Q:  With a runner on first, Team A right-handed pitcher is in the set position, bent at the waist and his pitching arm naturally hangs down slightly in front or to the side away from his body. As he looks to the catcher for a signal, a) the pitcher’s arm is stationary or b) the pitching arm rocks slightly from side to side. RULING:  In a), the position of the arm is natural and can be considered by his side in meeting the rule. Any movement would then start the pitch. In b), any movement of the arm is considered the start of the pitching motion and a pitch must be delivered to the plate so this motion results in a balk.

Are you saying you want to join the club?

[Richvee]

8 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

SITUATION 2: While in the set position, F1 has his pitching hand hanging straight down in front of his body, swinging back and forth, as he gets the sign from the catcher. RULING: This is not legal and is an illegal pitch or a balk if there are runners on base

Can you imagine the $h*tstorm if you call an illegal pitch for this with no one one?? 

[Thunderheads]

13 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Can you imagine the $h*tstorm if you call an illegal pitch for this with no one one?? 

Oh ... there ARE some out there that would call that!!!  

99.9% of the time I'm doing FED.  I tend not to see this a lot, but when I do, I'd go about it like this:  First, NOT too many people know that the moving arm in the Gorilla stance is illegal.  Also, typically (in my experience) the movement in the swinging arm isn't too much.  I'll let the first pitch go, then when play is relaxed, call time, wipe off the plate and have the catcher go tell him to stop moving his free arm.  Then, between innings, have a discussion with the coach about what I saw, what I did, and why.

The above has only happened once .... it worked, and the coach and pitcher were appreciative  

[LRZ]

An excellent example of preventive officiating, Jeff.

[aaluck]

1 hour ago, Thunderheads said:

Oh ... there ARE some out there that would call that!!!  

99.9% of the time I'm doing FED.  I tend not to see this a lot, but when I do, I'd go about it like this:  First, NOT too many people know that the moving arm in the Gorilla stance is illegal.  Also, typically (in my experience) the movement in the swinging arm isn't too much.  I'll let the first pitch go, then when play is relaxed, call time, wipe off the plate and have the catcher go tell him to stop moving his free arm.  Then, between innings, have a discussion with the coach about what I saw, what I did, and why.

The above has only happened once .... it worked, and the coach and pitcher were appreciative  

Outstanding.  I do this on young guys that are maybe not coming set as "long" as I want to see as well.

[beerguy55]

Gorilla Glue is also illegal.

[JaxRolo]

I agree with all the above answers...