Out or foul ball?

[Guest Gocubsgo]

A runner at third is in contact with third base, but the majority of his body is in foul territory. The batter hits a ball that hits a portion of the baserunner that is in foul territory while maintaining contact with the bag. Is the baserunner out? Or is it a foul ball?

[Jimurray]

16 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

It's fair but the runner was in foul territory. Not an out.

I think FED used to rule differently but now they do not:

"*5.1.1 SITUATION N:  

With R3 at third and F5 playing deep, B2 hits a ball that caroms off the base into foul territory where it touches R3.  

RULING: A runner who is hit by a batted fair ball in foul territory is not out and the ball remains live."

[jjb]

If the ball hits him in foul territory, it's foul. If it hits him in fair territory, he's out. The runner is only protected from an Infield Fly.

That's why the runner at third is taught to take his lead in foul territory. 

BTW, the rule that "the runners' not out if he's touching the base" is a softball rule. 

[Guest Foul or out]

11 minutes ago, jjb said:

If the ball hits him in foul territory, it's foul. If it hits him in fair territory, he's out. The runner is only protected from an Infield Fly.

That's why the runner at third is taught to take his lead in foul territory. 

BTW, the rule that "the runners' not out if he's touching the base" is a softball rule. 

I agree that it is a foul ball of the batter is OFF the bag in foul territory and is struck by the ball. Though what I am unsure of is if the runner is ON the bag when struck with the batted ball with his body in foul territory. If the runner is only protected during an Infield Fly, wouldn’t the runner be out then?  The bag is in play, and the runner is in contact with the bag. Obviously, this most likely won’t happen in the MLB, but could at lower levels who are not allowed to take leads, or forget to take their secondary!

[pnewton]

1 minute ago, Guest Foul or out said:

I agree that it is a foul ball of the batter is OFF the bag in foul territory and is struck by the ball. Though what I am unsure of is if the runner is ON the bag when struck with the batted ball with his body in foul territory. If the runner is only protected during an Infield Fly, wouldn’t the runner be out then?  The bag is in play, and the runner is in contact with the bag. Obviously, this most likely won’t happen in the MLB, but could at lower levels who are not allowed to take leads, or forget to take their secondary!

It's foul if the ball touches the part of the runner that is in foul territory because that means the ball was over/in foul territory.  Remember that fair/foul determinations are always made by where the ball is, not the person touching the ball.  For a runner to be out on interference by touching a batted ball THE BALL must be fair, where the (rest of the) runner is does not matter.

[jjb]

Touching the bag is irrelevant in your OP. The question is simply: was the ball in foul or fair territory when it hit him? Foul territory=foul. Fair territory=out.

 

[maven]

20 minutes ago, jjb said:

Touching the bag is irrelevant in your OP. The question is simply: was the ball in foul or fair territory when it hit him? Foul territory=foul. Fair territory=out.

I agree, though I'd rephrase your focal question: the runner is out (for INT) when hit by a fair ball (with some exceptions, etc.). There's a FED case play that explains what's wrong with your way of putting it: a batted ball hits the 3B bag and rebounds into foul ground where it strikes R3. That's a fair ball, and R3 is out for INT (BR awarded 1B w/ less than 2 outs).

 

[jjb]

I hear ya, Maven; I just figured he was confused enough as it was, and just answered the original question. 

[noumpere]

6 minutes ago, maven said:

I agree, though I'd rephrase your focal question: the runner is out (for INT) when hit by a fair ball (with some exceptions, etc.). There's a FED case play that explains what's wrong with your way of putting it: a batted ball hits the 3B bag and rebounds into foul ground where it strikes R3. That's a fair ball, and R3 is out for INT (BR awarded 1B w/ less than 2 outs).

 

I thought the runner was out only if hit by a fair ball in fair territory

[jjb]

If the ball hits third base and skitters into foul territory, is it a fair ball or foul ball? There ya go......

[Rich Ives]

38 minutes ago, maven said:

I agree, though I'd rephrase your focal question: the runner is out (for INT) when hit by a fair ball (with some exceptions, etc.). There's a FED case play that explains what's wrong with your way of putting it: a batted ball hits the 3B bag and rebounds into foul ground where it strikes R3. That's a fair ball, and R3 is out for INT (BR awarded 1B w/ less than 2 outs).

 

Methinks thou art incorrect.  Out if hit by a fair ball in fair territory.

[Rich Ives]

28 minutes ago, jjb said:

If the ball hits third base and skitters into foul territory, is it a fair ball or foul ball? There ya go......

It's fair but the runner was in foul territory. Not an out.

[Senor Azul]

You have an amazing memory, Mr. Jimurray. According to the 2016 BRD (p. 219), the codes used to disagree on this issue a long time ago—

Interference by: Runner:  w/Batted Ball: In Foul Territory

All codes now agree: Text deleted, 1994

[noumpere]

I don’t recall that case play nor do I recall Fed being different on this

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

I don’t recall that case play nor do I recall Fed being different on this

I don't know where my memory of this comes from. There is a 2010 interp that calls it the same way as the current caseplay. Maybe I have been led astray by @maven in this and the retired runner interp

[BobUmp]

May I add for the guest that it is only an infield fly if the ball is fair. Infield fly rule does not apply to foul balls.

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