How many is too many

[Storm13]

I am just starting to get much more serious about umpiring but just moved to a new area.  My question is how many associations are too many to be a part of?  Thanks for your thoughts and be blessed

[maven]

That's going to depend on what associations do in your area. Around here, associations are built around HS ball, and there's not much point belonging to more than one. It's possible to get games from other assigners without joining other associations.

IOW, a national forum is not a good source for the answer to your questions. Other VA guys would know better (some are on here).

[Storm13]

Thanks for the feedback...have a great one

[Mudisfun]

As@maven said many associations are built specific for the area. Where I live in So. Cal our association handles all of Orange County HS Baseball D and only HS Baseball. I could also join the group that handles Los Angeles HS Baseball but I would not see many more games as my availability is what it is.

For the off HS season I work for a couple assignors as well...

Find out what is set up in your area as well as figure out how far you are willing to travel since that will be a big determiner as to your availability for associations.

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[HokieUmp]

Where are you in Virginia, specifically?  PM me if you want.

[BT_Blue]

Here in my area I belong to two HS associations and, until this year, was also a part of a college group.

I gave the most priority to the college group. Then one HS group followed bythe other. The HS groups got first come first serve. But college always got priority. 

[Storm13]

@BT_Blue So i have a question...if you had a HS game and then got assigned a college game what did you do?

[ALStripes17]

@BT_Blue So i have a question...if you had a HS game and then got assigned a college game what did you do?

Communicate!

If this happens to me, I call my HS assigner and see if he can find a replacement for my already accepted games. If not, then I work the HS game.

My HS assigner is really good about working with us around late-assigned college games as long as we communicate effectively and truthfully about what's going on.

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[GreyhoundAggie]

1 hour ago, Storm13 said:

@BT_Blue So i have a question...if you had a HS game and then got assigned a college game what did you do?

To follow up on stripes comment. Just call your assigner, every assigner I've ever worked with will bend over backwards to let you do that college game.

They all want us to keep improving and getting the opportunity to call bigger and better games.

 

[BT_Blue]

9 hours ago, Storm13 said:

@BT_Blue So i have a question...if you had a HS game and then got assigned a college game what did you do?

Exactly what the guys above said. Nice thing is that the college assigner and my main HS Commissioner (their title... not mine) is that they are really good friends. So if college calls me, they have already talked and gotten the ok.

But I will still check on my behalf just in case.

A for the other HS unit. I would call and as them.

Communication is the main component here. If you are assigned somewhere. Don't just blindly turn back your original game. Call and ask first.

[MadMax]

Here in Phoenix, I'm a participant in six different organizations, soon to be seven or even eight (if all goes according to plan). Back in Wisconsin, I was involved in three, and none of them was sanctioned High School ball (because of a difference in opinion on how umpires are assigned and evaluated). All three organizations paid same-day cash or check, and there were only the sporadic shortages of games. Often, if you wanted weeknight games, you'd opt for Org. A, then make yourself available for Org. B on weekends, when they'd host these huge 15-16-game tournaments. Org. C, though, was the best ball (Showcase) of the three, and you'd keep your ears open for when they'd call you.

My last year and a half in Wisconsin, I was prodded into MSBL ball, and that became my Friday night or Sunday afternoon gig.

I relocated to Arizona based on the advice of @MidAmUmp, the encouragement of several former and current MLB & MiLB umpires, and the unabashed friendliness and support of @KenBAZ. The point was that I wasn't going to progress or advance in Wisconsin, and I had to get into a baseball-enriched environment. These six organizations I'm a part of are all doors that may (or may not) lead off to the place I want to be (the seventh and/or eighth I mentioned), and one in particular is actively trying to get me there.

Don't limit yourself unless necessary. Call as many games as you are physically able to handle effectively. Don't sweat what level it is... just make sure you are applying the proper ruleset.

[KenBAZ]

Hey buddy, they are just opportunities until you make the most of them. I know the lay of the land but the reality is all of our assigners are looking for the same things. Reliability, compatibility, available, competence, hustle and motivation. Since you have been here you've demonstrated all of those and earned the games and opportunities you're getting.

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[VolUmp]

On 1/8/2017 at 9:27 AM, Storm13 said:

I am just starting to get much more serious about umpiring but just moved to a new area.  My question is how many associations are too many to be a part of?  Thanks for your thoughts and be blessed

Just to provide another angle, here in TN, it is not legal to be part of more than one FED HS Association simultaneously.  What you MAY do is belong to Association A, and let the Assignors of Associations B & C know that you would like to be considered on occasion as a "borrowed" ump.  Then the protocol is ... If Association B or C needs help, they have to call A and ask to borrow you.  If A says, "Sorry .. I need him," end of story.  If A says, "Sure thing ... he's idle today" then you will hear from B or C.  Then, to CYA, you should call A and make certain B or C did what they were supposed to do.

What officials have done to circumvent the protocol, they've called B and/or C any day they haven't been assigned by A.  Then B or C assigned them games without going through A.  Sooner or later, they get caught ... usually when A calls them late with a game to cover for an emergency.  These officials and the Assignors have been suspended for up to a year for pulling this crap.

One more issue ... if you decide, for example, to change FED Associations (a move, more work available, etc) you have to do it at the beginning of a season.  You may not change in the middle.  So, if, for example, you start calling in March and move in April, the thing to do is stick with your original Association, communicate with both assignors, and try to get "borrowed" regularly for the remainder of the season with your new Association.  The only caveat is, you probably won't be able to work the State Tournament that year.

[Mudisfun]

@VolUmp there is actually a law on the books in your state or this violates some admin policy the state organization has? Just curious as to why a state legislature would be forced to enact an actual law.

[scrounge]

15 hours ago, VolUmp said:

Just to provide another angle, here in TN, it is not legal to be part of more than one FED HS Association simultaneously.  What you MAY do is belong to Association A, and let the Assignors of Associations B & C know that you would like to be considered on occasion as a "borrowed" ump.  Then the protocol is ... If Association B or C needs help, they have to call A and ask to borrow you.  If A says, "Sorry .. I need him," end of story.  If A says, "Sure thing ... he's idle today" then you will hear from B or C.  Then, to CYA, you should call A and make certain B or C did what they were supposed to do.

What officials have done to circumvent the protocol, they've called B and/or C any day they haven't been assigned by A.  Then B or C assigned them games without going through A.  Sooner or later, they get caught ... usually when A calls them late with a game to cover for an emergency.  These officials and the Assignors have been suspended for up to a year for pulling this crap.

One more issue ... if you decide, for example, to change FED Associations (a move, more work available, etc) you have to do it at the beginning of a season.  You may not change in the middle.  So, if, for example, you start calling in March and move in April, the thing to do is stick with your original Association, communicate with both assignors, and try to get "borrowed" regularly for the remainder of the season with your new Association.  The only caveat is, you probably won't be able to work the State Tournament that year.

Now, I'm not a tax lawyer, but these kinds of restrictions sound an awful lot like something you could only do to an employee, not an independent contractor. Just sayin'...

[VolUmp]

1 hour ago, Mudisfun said:

@VolUmpor this violates some admin policy the state organization has?

THIS.  And I think you knew that.  Against regulations.

[Replacematt]

32 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

THIS.  And I think you knew that.  Against regulations.

How do the associations afford to pay all the payroll taxes associated with this?

[VolUmp]

35 minutes ago, Matt said:

How do the associations afford to pay all the payroll taxes associated with this?

On the chance that you're being serious, we are all independent contractors.  No taxes withheld.  1099s only come from certain counties.  Teams who pay from the "Club" account as opposed to paying from the school funding rarely have an umpire make $600 and thus, have no obligation to send 1099s.

Some guys try to spread out their work to avoid hitting the $600 threshhold in any county known for sending 1099s.  And yes, I'm well aware it doesn't mean you're not obligated to claim income just because you were not "1099'd" on it ...

[Replacematt]

46 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

On the chance that you're being serious, we are all independent contractors.  No taxes withheld.  1099s only come from certain counties.  Teams who pay from the "Club" account as opposed to paying from the school funding rarely have an umpire make $600 and thus, have no obligation to send 1099s.

Some guys try to spread out their work to avoid hitting the $600 threshhold in any county known for sending 1099s.  And yes, I'm well aware it doesn't mean you're not obligated to claim income just because you were not "1099'd" on it ...

I am being serious. It's already been posited, but I'll say it--with those restrictions, you are no longer independent contractors.

[VolUmp]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I am being serious. It's already been posited, but I'll say it--with those restrictions, you are no longer independent contractors.

Well, Sir, you are incorrect.  I could still join 5 other non-FED (in our state TSSAA) Associations and work travel ball, adult ball, college ball, youth ball, non-FED-affiliated HS ball, etc. which would suffice for one of the several "tests" (to which you refer by implication) of whether a worker must be designated as an employee or may be treated as an independent contractor.  It just dawned on me, according to your theory, we'd all be required to be provided with affordable health care ... for a few more days ... until it's repealed and replaced ...

[Replacematt]

16 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Well, Sir, you are incorrect.  I could still join 5 other non-FED (in our state TSSAA) Associations and work travel ball, adult ball, college ball, youth ball, non-FED-affiliated HS ball, etc. which would suffice for one of the several "tests" (to which you refer by implication) of whether a worker must be designated as an employee or may be treated as an independent contractor.  It just dawned on me, according to your theory, we'd all be required to be provided with affordable health care ... for a few more days ... until it's repealed and replaced ...

You aren't free to contract as you wish. That is one of, if not, the biggest test(s). I do know this is why my old association was ruled to be an employer.

[VolUmp]

Matt, I don't know what state you're in, but in mine, TN, this has been put to the test ... both in this little paid hobby we call HS Officiating, and in my day gig.  We (the company for which I work) contract several people as tour manager, musicians, bus drivers, merchandisers, etc., and they are mostly free to contract as they wish ... but there are some restrictions we must place on them (for logistical and promotional reasons). That does not disqualify them from being treated as an independent contractor.  That does not force us to treat them as employees.  I know.  I'm the one who has to ask.  With state regulated Worker's Comp in addition to the Feds.

[Replacematt]

2 hours ago, VolUmp said:

Matt, I don't know what state you're in, but in mine, TN, this has been put to the test ... both in this little paid hobby we call HS Officiating, and in my day gig.  We (the company for which I work) contract several people as tour manager, musicians, bus drivers, merchandisers, etc., and they are mostly free to contract as they wish ... but there are some restrictions we must place on them (for logistical and promotional reasons). That does not disqualify them from being treated as an independent contractor.  That does not force us to treat them as employees.  I know.  I'm the one who has to ask.  With state regulated Worker's Comp in addition to the Feds.

"Mostly free" is not the same as "prohibited" or "restricted."

The restrictions you have for your workers fall under promissory estoppel. They are still free to contract with others as long it does not impede on their contract with you. If the subsequent contract impedes on yours, the remedy is that they cannot fulfill it without risking damages to you. With an overarching clause that an umpire cannot work for another association even if there is no hindrance to any agreement with the first association, they no longer are independent contractors.

 

[VolUmp]

56 minutes ago, Matt said:

"Mostly free" is not the same as "prohibited" or "restricted."

The restrictions you have for your workers fall under promissory estoppel. They are still free to contract with others as long it does not impede on their contract with you. If the subsequent contract impedes on yours, the remedy is that they cannot fulfill it without risking damages to you. With an overarching clause that an umpire cannot work for another association even if there is no hindrance to any agreement with the first association, they no longer are independent contractors.

I'm quite comfortable with the arrangement.

[dumbdumb]

I think we would all be remiss, going back to the OP, if we did not mention that in some areas, things 'could' be very 'territorial', and with some assignor's the situation 'might be' you are either 'with me' or 'agin me'.

As long as you work for them, and only them you are fine. That 'could' even mean you cannot work LL for free.

As some have mentioned above, many assignor's would bend over backwards to help and replace you with their lower level assignment, for the opportunity to work a higher level.

Many Collegiate assignors 'might' work closely with local High School assignor's just for substitution purposes in some tough situations.

But others, would not help you at all, as you would be considered, a traitor for lack of a better term. It could be that they want a piece of that Higher League, to increase their own 'business' if you will, and might have been 'turned down' for whatever reason to assign the League you are requesting to beg off a game for. Therefor, there is no incentive for them to try and help you from that angle.

Other's just might be miserable old/young cusses, who are fine with you moving up and wish you every good wish imaginable. But, if you break with them to move to a higher level, it is now over with them. Basically they think or know they own you. If you cannot get a very full schedule at that higher level right off the bat, oh well. Don't come crying to them that you only got 3 games and now you still want your 30 High School games. It's me or them, don't blame me, I am the good guy. I wished you well from the bottom of my heart. Go blame the Higher League for giving you the 'measly 3 games', rather than a 'full schedule' like you had from 'day one' with me. And in some areas, better ball might mean, 3 games to start, 5 games the next year, 7 the next, 9 the next and so on and so forth, and that could be just the non-conference, with the Conference working the same way on your journey to a full schedule at the Conference Level or some type of Higher Level ball. Each assignor handles things differently and the way they want to handle it, no questions asked.

So, all officials everywhere have to figure out how things work in their area and play by the rules. You can always walk right out that same door you walked in and quit officiating, or in some areas, even though the travel would ratchet up, you could switch to another area for your officiating and a more gracious assignor concerning this subject.

The above is not a right or wrong concerning the situation above. And, each assignor is allowed to handle things the way they want to handle things. Some might be considered nicer than others if we took a pole. Of course there is also the option of becoming an assignor yourself in the future and making the decision yourself on how to handle the issue with your staff.

Good luck to all newcomers on this issue.