Avoiding the Tag

[Guest Guest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if3PDSoLFoM

 

How are some of these plays not out of the base path?  Namely the first rundown with Harrison and Ichiro at the plate.  Harrison falls into the grass infield to avoid the tag and Ichiro goes all the way past catchers box to avoid tag.  I know about the base path is defined as a straight line from where runner is to base he is running to and if they divert more than 3 feet its an out.  

 

Thanks,

[OHUMP]

On the Harrison play a new base path is basically established with every throw made in the run down.  On the last throw he did not divert more than 3 feet to avoid the tag so he was never out of the baseline. 

[maven]

Harrison: this forum discussed that play a great deal when it happened. Perhaps someone (maybe the OP) could find that discussion. Basically, the umpire ruled that the runner went down, not wide, to avoid the tag. You're entitled to your opinion of the call, but pro fielders are going to have to try harder than that to make the tag when the runner is lying on the ground. Umpires are not going to bail them out for poor play.

Ichiro: we don't have a good angle to see how far the runner diverged from his base path. He might have been quite wide to begin, so that he did not need to move from that path to avoid the tag. The dance around the plate will always be nothing.

[ricka56]

Baseball's Catch-22. To apply the greater than 3 foot deviation rule, a tag attempt must be made. To have a tag attempt, you have to be within reach of the runner (center chest to finger tip distance = 3 feet). So as long as you avoid the tag (stay out of reach of fielder with the ball), you can never be guilty of deviating 3 feet. This Catch-22 has made a mockery of the rule.

Some of these plays are a good example why lower level umpires shouldn't emulate some of the things MLB umpires do.  

[Aging_Arbiter]

Dear Guest Guest.  Just because they run in the dirt most of the time, does not mean that the dirt is their base path.  It's worn out grass that has been cut out just to look good.

[ElkOil]

On another note, this is excellent viewing to appreciate just how good the eye of an MLB umpire is. You can particularly see how their choice of angle and positioning are crucial.

[Guest]

His path has to be toward a base when a play is being made.  Both times he avoided tag he clearly moves in a direction not toward base.  First toward left field and second toward the infield.  According to Maven falling down may have help with the call but to me both of those are clearly going out of base path to avoid tag.  

[Rich Ives]

6 minutes ago, Guest said:

His path has to be toward a base when a play is being made.  Both times he avoided tag he clearly moves in a direction not toward base.  First toward left field and second toward the infield.  According to Maven falling down may have help with the call but to me both of those are clearly going out of base path to avoid tag.  

He can go sideways as long at doesn't exceed the three feet.

[ricka56]

1 hour ago, Guest said:

His path has to be toward a base when a play is being made.  Both times he avoided tag he clearly moves in a direction not toward base.  First toward left field and second toward the infield.  According to Maven falling down may have help with the call but to me both of those are clearly going out of base path to avoid tag.  

Refer to my previous Catch-22 post. Those MLB umpires judged that his sideways movement was done prior to any play (tag attempt)...actually they had to have judged that no play attempt was made at all. High school rules/interpretation is much more liberal on when a play is being made. The following was sent today to all TASO (Texas HS umpires). It doesn't address the issue you have with those plays, but it shows that HS avoiding an attempt at a play is interpreted differently than in MLB. The tag avoidance in the plays that you are talking about wouldn't be allow in a HS game.   

Snake in the Grass - ...This play is occurring again mostly when we have runners at first and third. The coach has his runner on first base take his lead toward right field, sometimes positioned on the foul line in the grass in right field. When the throw is made to first, the runner sometimes even runs to the outfield. The intent is to obviously distract the defense and thus score the runner from third. Many umpires want to immediately call the runner on first out when he takes his lead and/or eject him and the coach. The reality? It is not illegal; silly yes, but not illegal. We have no rule that specifies where a runner on first must take his lead. All we know is that when the defense makes a throw over to first, the runner, from his position at that time, establishes his base line from that point to first or second base, whichever base he now attempts to get to. If he moves out of that baseline, he can be called out for avoiding a play...

 

 

[Guest Tyson]

On 4/22/2016 at 7:19 PM, ricka56 said:

when the defense makes a throw over to first, the runner, from his position at that time, establishes his base line from that point to first or second base, whichever base he now attempts to get to. If he moves out of that baseline, he can be called out for avoiding a play...

 

 

But what is the legal path in this case?

so can a runner going back in this basepath? Or not?

       18 feet between R1 and 2B

2B --------- R1 ------ (deeper in outfield)

he decides towards 2B so

now we have this 7 feet to 2B

2B ---- R1 ------- R1 past (where R1 was at the time of the tag)

could R1 back to R1 past?

and

between the baseline

 

we have (tag attempt made)

2B

|

|

|

R1

can go behind after he moves towards 2B for 5 feet?

after

2B

|

|

R1

|

 

And when a new tag attempt is made or when a tag attempt is finished?

A fielder tries to tag a runner with an arm but runner slides and so is it considered a new tag attept?

 

 

 

[noumpere]

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[Thunderheads]

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