HS Rule Changes

[conbo61]

Frankly, I would have thought the FED baseball guys could worry more about promoting the game and stopping lax from eating our lunch, rather than quibbling about rules.

FED rules will always be written by a committee, and they will always bear the marks and incoherence of being produced in that manner. I've never understood umpires wasting mental bandwidth fuming over rules differences. Those who hate FED so much should not work the games. It really is that easy.

The only exception I take here @maven is

"FED rules will always be written by a committee"

What rules in what sport are NOT developed by committee?

[maven]

The only exception I take here @maven is

"FED rules will always be written by a committee"

What rules in what sport are NOT developed by committee?

That doesn't sound like an exception. It sounds as if you agree with me, since you think that all codes for all sports are written by committee, and my claim follows from your general principle.

It's always nice when we agree.

[sdix00]

I think the FPSR needs to be re-written to be much more clear.   The language is ambiguous and spread all throughout the rule book, mixed in with regular runner interference.   It is extremely difficult to understand the rule and apply it consistently without a lot of reading of the rule book, case book, mentoring, and trial and error. 

 

There are two aspects to the FP/SR:

• On a Force Play, the regular Slide Rule gets ONE additional requirement -
  • sliding directly into the base. 
• INTERFERENCE on a Force Play (not JUST slides (See CB 8.4.2W, haha)), gets two additional penalties -
  • BR also out,
  • and runners return to TOP (8-4-2b)  
    • (different for regular runner interference, which is TOI - (8-2-9)).  

 

I could be right, or wrong on the details above, duh, because the rule is hard to understand, duh, but this is how I enforce it, in my games, until I don't. 

 

Anyway, IMO, the most confusing rule in the NFHS rule book.  The intent of the rule is simple I am sure, but they don't make it easy. 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by sdix00

[Minnz]

The more FED aligns with NCAA the better it is for the player and umpires. Many more of us are getting chances to work in the college ranks and still do FED at the same time. Having as many rules the same would give the kids a better experience because we would have better instincts at both levels and knowledge base.

Plus, HS kids goal is to play at the next level. The more you align the rule set with the next level, the better chance they have at an easy transition to that.

Third, not a rule but a HUGE encouragement for all Varsity District/League/Conference games to use a 3-man crew. Can't be mandated by budget reaons but a strong encouragement from the FED could help go a long way.

[JaxRolo]

Something I just had to add (mechanics wise):

 

Let the damn field umpire rotate home on trouble balls two man.

So you want an old man like me to go all the way out on a trouble ball and be able to make it back to 3blx ??

[KenBAZ]

Most exciting play an umpire gets to make in the 2-man system! You have to wait for the ball to be thrown in then sprint down the foul line calling to your partner. I've never had a banger at the plate on a play like this but I'm hoping to get one while I can still get there. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

So you want an old man like me to go all the way out on a trouble ball and be able to make it back to 3blx ??

Most of my partners want me to go out and then keep going.

[grayhawk]

Most exciting play an umpire gets to make in the 2-man system! You have to wait for the ball to be thrown in then sprint down the foul line calling to your partner. I've never had a banger at the plate on a play like this but I'm hoping to get one while I can still get there. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Our association uses "go out stay out" so I've never used the mechanic but the bolded above seems wrong to me.  There's no way you could get back home if you wait for the ball to be thrown in.  I would think you would sprint home after you determine that there is nothing left to judge in the outfield (such as a ball getting lodged), and well before the ball is thrown in.

[KenBAZ]

Jim Evans is in the go out and stay out school although he said MiLB want BU coming back in. He had us waiting until a throw was released to break to the foul line and head back foul to the 1st base area. It would depend on how far out I got on the trouble ball. Most fair/foul calls I think I could get as far out as the play would allow and get to the plate after a throw. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[grayhawk]

Jim Evans is in the go out and stay out school although he said MiLB want BU coming back in. He had us waiting until a throw was released to break to the foul line and head back foul to the 1st base area. It would depend on how far out I got on the trouble ball. Most fair/foul calls I think I could get as far out as the play would allow and get to the plate after a throw. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

I just can't get my head around this.  The batter hits one that bounces around the RF corner.  You went out to judge fair/foul and are 30 feet past the 1B bag straddling the line.  You see F9 finally chase down the ball and throw it to the cutoff man.  Now you break back towards home?  By this time, the BR is probably about to round third (if he's going for the inside the park HR) and you can somehow get to home, in position and set for the call?

[lawump]

I just can't get my head around this.  The batter hits one that bounces around the RF corner.  You went out to judge fair/foul and are 30 feet past the 1B bag straddling the line.  You see F9 finally chase down the ball and throw it to the cutoff man.  Now you break back towards home?  By this time, the BR is probably about to round third (if he's going for the inside the park HR) and you can somehow get to home, in position and set for the call?

@‌Grayhawk:  picture this: your scenario except (1) the ball is a rocket line-drive so you don't get 30 feet past the 1B bag.  You only have time to turn and take a couple of steps toward the outfield.  (2) F9 does exactly what you wrote...except, (3) B/R is rounding second base as the throw comes in (remember, the hit was a "rocket line-drive".)  As soon as you see that there is not going to be a LBT/DBT issue or a fan interference issue, you start toward home in foul territory, watching over your shoulder as F9 throws the ball. 

Now, the throw goes to third base...and gets away.  B/R heads home.  Per MiLB UD manual, the base umpire should NOT communicate to the plate umpire UNTIL he knows he can get to the home plate area to take the play.  Once he knows he can get there, then he can tell the plate umpire, "I've got home!" 

I've had it happen once as the base umpire (in a high school game) since I learned the mechanic at umpire school in 1997.  Unfortunately, the runner was safe at home by a country mile, so I didn't get my "whacker".

As an aside:  I have had multiple occasions (usually once or twice or year) where I will start my sprint toward home plate and get to about the 45-foot line when I pull up because the B/R remains at third.  On multiple occasions, I've had coaches (both in College and High School) comment on the hustle.  We (the umpires) didn't hear a peep from the coaches for the rest of the game in any of those games. 

It looks sweet, and usually impresses amateur coaches.

 

 

[grayhawk]

@‌Grayhawk:  picture this: your scenario except (1) the ball is a rocket line-drive so you don't get 30 feet past the 1B bag.  You only have time to turn and take a couple of steps toward the outfield.  (2) F9 does exactly what you wrote...except, (3) B/R is rounding second base as the throw comes in (remember, the hit was a "rocket line-drive".)  As soon as you see that there is not going to be a LBT/DBT issue or a fan interference issue, you start toward home in foul territory, watching over your shoulder as F9 throws the ball. 

Now, the throw goes to third base...and gets away.  B/R heads home.  Per MiLB UD manual, the base umpire should NOT communicate to the plate umpire UNTIL he knows he can get to the home plate area to take the play.  Once he knows he can get there, then he can tell the plate umpire, "I've got home!" 

I've had it happen once as the base umpire (in a high school game) since I learned the mechanic at umpire school in 1997.  Unfortunately, the runner was safe at home by a country mile, so I didn't get my "whacker".

As an aside:  I have had multiple occasions (usually once or twice or year) where I will start my sprint toward home plate and get to about the 45-foot line when I pull up because the B/R remains at third.  On multiple occasions, I've had coaches (both in College and High School) comment on the hustle.  We (the umpires) didn't hear a peep from the coaches for the rest of the game in any of those games. 

It looks sweet, and usually impresses amateur coaches.

 

 

So the gist of it is that there are some situations where you can get back, and others where you can't.  Either way, BU should only communicate with PU if he knows he can be there in time.  In my scenario, BU can't get there and stays back to let PU take a potential play at home.  In your scenario, he's able to get there and make the call.  In any case, BU starts heading back as the fielder is making the throw (as @KenBAZ said in his post).  Am I expressing this correctly?

[lawump]

So the gist of it is that there are some situations where you can get back, and others where you can't.  Either way, BU should only communicate with PU if he knows he can be there in time.  In my scenario, BU can't get there and stays back to let PU take a potential play at home.  In your scenario, he's able to get there and make the call.  In any case, BU starts heading back as the fielder is making the throw (as @KenBAZ said in his post).  Am I expressing this correctly?

I am with you 100% until the very end of your post.

You may start heading back slightly before F9's throw if (1) you know that there is no LBT/DBT issues, (2) the ball can't/won't become lodged and (3) there is no spectator (or other...such as a bullpen player) interference issues.  If you do head back before the throw, you have to have your head on a swivel and watch F9 all the way until he fires the ball back in.

[grayhawk]

I am with you 100% until the very end of your post.

You may start heading back slightly before F9's throw if (1) you know that there is no LBT/DBT issues, (2) the ball can't/won't become lodged and (3) there is no spectator (or other...such as a bullpen player) interference issues.  If you do head back before the throw, you have to have your head on a swivel and watch F9 all the way until he fires the ball back in.

Okay - that gets back to the original point I made that BU should move back towards the plate when he's sure there is nothing else to judge in the outfield.  This may or may not happen prior to the throw, depending on the status of the ball in the outfield.  Yes?

[lawump]

Okay - that gets back to the original point I made that BU should move back towards the plate when he's sure there is nothing else to judge in the outfield.  This may or may not happen prior to the throw, depending on the status of the ball in the outfield.  Yes?

Yup.  As you're moving just keep your eyes in the outfield for that 1 in a million play (such as the right fielder goes to throw it and it pops out of his hand backwards and goes over the outfield wall).

I equate it to this: As a Red Sox fan I watch a lot of games on TV played in Fenway Park.  If you're familiar with Fenway Park, you'll notice that a ball hit into the left field corner can't be lodged (there's nothing for the ball to get stuck in) and fans cannot touch the ball (they are sitting way above the playing surface).  So, you will notice (if you watch the umpires on replays, like I do), that a lot of times, a third base umpire in Fenway will turn and point the ball fair and then once he sees it roll into the left field corner, he'll start walking back toward third base while watching the ball/outfielder.  This saves the crew from having to rotate or reverse rotate.  There is simply nothing to be gained from the umpire going out in that ballpark in that situation.

Likewise, in what we are discussing, even though the base umpire has gone out to rule on the F/F, once you have determined that there is nothing further you have to rule on in the outfield (other than the 1 in a million play), you can start working your way home as long as you keep watching the ball/outfielder.

[grayhawk]

Yup.  As you're moving just keep your eyes in the outfield for that 1 in a million play (such as the right fielder goes to throw it and it pops out of his hand backwards and goes over the outfield wall).

I equate it to this: As a Red Sox fan I watch a lot of games on TV played in Fenway Park.  If you're familiar with Fenway Park, you'll notice that a ball hit into the left field corner can't be lodged (there's nothing for the ball to get stuck in) and fans cannot touch the ball (they are sitting way above the playing surface).  So, you will notice (if you watch the umpires on replays, like I do), that a lot of times, a third base umpire in Fenway will turn and point the ball fair and then once he sees it roll into the left field corner, he'll start walking back toward third base while watching the ball/outfielder.  This saves the crew from having to rotate or reverse rotate.  There is simply nothing to be gained from the umpire going out in that ballpark in that situation.

Likewise, in what we are discussing, even though the base umpire has gone out to rule on the F/F, once you have determined that there is nothing further you have to rule on in the outfield (other than the 1 in a million play), you can start working your way home as long as you keep watching the ball/outfielder.

Excellent - appreciate the additional color.

[johnnyg08]

I hate the "if a player doesn't make an effort to get out of the way, keep 'em in the box."  

 

That's not the FED rule...the FED rules states that the batter shall not "permit the ball to hit him" NCAA is essentially "make an effort"

[VAUmp]

I suggest the following change:

Current Reading: 10-1-9 . . . Umpires shall wear gray slacks, and navy pullover shirt or state association-adopted shirt.

Change to: 10-1-9  . . . Umpires shall wear gray slacks, and navy black  pullover shirt or state association-adopted shirt.

         

Maybe this would get Virginia to (finally) switch to the black instead of navy shirt

Edited December 28, 2015 by VAUmp

[spiffdawg7]

I suggest the following change:

Current Reading: 10-1-9 . . . Umpires shall wear gray slacks, and navy pullover shirt or state association-adopted shirt.

Change to: 10-1-9  . . . Umpires shall wear gray slacks, and navy black  pullover shirt or state association-adopted shirt.

         

Maybe this would get Virginia to (finally) switch to the black instead of navy shirt

It should also say Charcoal gray slacks. Unfortunately Georgia is making us switch back to Heather gray this year after allowing us to wear Charcoal for several years

[Minnz]

It should also say Charcoal gray slacks. Unfortunately Georgia is making us switch back to Heather gray this year after allowing us to wear Charcoal for several years

Why even call out a color shirt? Umpires shall wear gray slacks and matching shirts.

[VolUmp]

Of all the replies above that I agree with, I didn't see the rule mentioned that was changed 9 years ago in OBR ... on a dropped 3rd, where the batter makes no effort to run to 1B, he can walk all the way to within a step of the 3rd base dugout, then turn and run across the mound to get to 1B.

Please align that with OBR and call him out when he leaves the dirt circle with no effort to get to 1B.

The most frustrating rule difference for me is, in fact, the balk rule (all balks immediately dead).  I would guess that 80% of the balks called are for blowing through a set with runner(s) on.  Then despite the balk call with two hands in the air, the batter hits a clean base hit and I tell him it never happened.  Yes ... I realize it's "easier" this way, but it's wrong.  It OFTEN penalizes the offense for a defensive infraction.

[zm1283]

14 hours ago, WildFlyer said:

Of all the replies above that I agree with, I didn't see the rule mentioned that was changed 9 years ago in OBR ... on a dropped 3rd, where the batter makes no effort to run to 1B, he can walk all the way to within a step of the 3rd base dugout, then turn and run across the mound to get to 1B.

Please align that with OBR and call him out when he leaves the dirt circle with no effort to get to 1B.

The most frustrating rule difference for me is, in fact, the balk rule (all balks immediately dead).  I would guess that 80% of the balks called are for blowing through a set with runner(s) on.  Then despite the balk call with two hands in the air, the batter hits a clean base hit and I tell him it never happened.  Yes ... I realize it's "easier" this way, but it's wrong.  It OFTEN penalizes the offense for a defensive infraction.

I agree with you about both rules here. 

With that said, the balk rule is written for the lowest-common denominator umpire, which is what FED has to cater to. Just like in basketball where a technical foul is always two shots plus the ball to the offended team. (NCAA basketball has different administration for different technicals) I do like the NCAA/OBR version of balk enforcement better, but it would be kind of a mess in high school baseball. 

[Welpe]

1 hour ago, zm1283 said:

I do like the NCAA/OBR version of balk enforcement better, but it would be kind of a mess in high school baseball. 

I'm not sure I agree. There are a lot of rec / summer leagues that use OBR and their balk rule as well. Of course around here, brand new umpires are encouraged to get experience working those levels before moving into high school ball so in general high school umpires just starting out have more experience than in some other parts of the country it seems.