Batter's Box - Legal Position

[Aussie123]

What a great resource and much appreciation to all the experienced umpires who take the time to offer their opinions to help.

 

In a LL game last night, the batter's box was not chalked. Understandable, if you know how often it rains in the Seattle area! The association just ran out of chalk, but as I took the field, I was, nonetheless, pleased that at least I got a half cup of the last coffee! We all know that, in the abscence of a defined batter's box, a good Varsity pitcher will certainly define the batter's box and batters will quickly learn they will be dumped on their backside for crowding the plate! In LL, pitchers do not have that fine edge and, for safety sake, we, as umpires, certainly do not want to allow LL batters to illegally crowd the plate. I was therefore forced to call time more than once and borrow the batter's bat to define the inside line of the batter's box.

 

In prudently calling time to mark the inside line of the batter's box with the batter's bat, after seeing the batter's toes were on the black, the one contentious OC in the league has to come down the line to "investgate". After expaining his batter's feet position, and my not wanting to see a LL batter hurt, the OC tells me I'm wrong and that if his batter's heel is inside the batter's box...his batter is in a legal batting position.

 

Do correct me...but my recollection is ALL of a batter's foot must be inside the batter's box prior to the delivery of a pitch. I believe a clarification came out of LL Western Region HQ in San Bernadino on this about 10 years ago. A batter's foot [toe] may be on the chalk line, [if it exists], however, no part of a batter's foot may extend over the chalk line prior to the delivery of the pitch. In the course of a batter's swing, yes, a foot can be out of the box - even onto the plate, so long as any part of his other foot remains inside the defined batter's box. A drag bunt being an example of a play in which the umpire has to keenly observe the position of a batter's foot at the time of the bunt. Agree?

 

Now, to those in the forum that are uncomfortable in hearing, "It's a quarter after 5:00", I guess we could go further with the question of a batter's legal position in the batter's box at the time of the pitch? If, for those of us umpires that glance down at a batter's feet position once prior to the pitcher's windup, and then focus our attention on the pitcher...what of a batter who may subsequently decide to subtly creep closer to the plate, and over the line? An example being the tall lanky pitcher who has such an incredibly slow windup after coming set.

 

Curious on the first part of a the question of a batter's legal position in the batter's box....the latter "batter's creep" during a pitcher's windup might be a good rainout topic. But given the rain in Seattle...?

 

Thanks again for everyone's opinion and the time/energy put into youth sports!

 

Regards,

 

Aussie

[guyinaredhat]

My understanding of the obr rule is as follows. 

 

A batter may take any position inside the box as long as some part of both feet are in the box.   If you have a batter standing on the line then I would have him legally in the box. 

 

If a batter hits the ball and his entire foot(feet) are out of the box then the batter can be called out.    

 

In the  absence of  a batters box it would be strictly the PU's judgement whether the batter was in the box or not.   i WOULD NOT continually draw dirt lines to define the box all game.

 

I would not say anything to a batter who's legally or illegally crowding the plate( that would be coaching wouldn't it?) but I would not hesitate to call a batter out for being outside of the box if I saw it.

 

Also keep in mind that if you have a batter crowding the plate , you might get the opportunity to call a hbp strike , if the batter is "hanging over" the plate. 

 

Now keep in mind I don't work a ton of LL and the LL i do work is usually Majors on up.

 

From my coaching perspective batters crowding the plate usually aren't scared of getting hit by the pitch. 

[grayhawk]

You are correct as to the batter's legal position. As to your second question, I'm more concerned with the pitch at that point and if the batter inches over the line, then so be it. If he happens to get hit by a pitch on the inside corner because he's too close, then he's staying at the plate with a strike added to his count.

[maven]

1. Without lines, he's in the box.

2. As PU, I'm almost never going to see the batter out of the box: I'm too busy tracking the pitch. Remember the rule: it's only illegal if his foot is on the ground and entirely out of the box at the moment he hits the ball.

 

The exception is the batter who runs halfway to the mound to bunt the ball. If he's got both feet out of the box, I'll probably get that. Otherwise, this provision is almost impossible to enforce with 1 umpire, and seldom enforced with 2. Nobody gets a good look at his feet.

[scrounge]

I've made this call only once, in a 12U game where the RH batter stepped so far over to bunt that he blocked my view of the pitch. His entire foot was on the plate.

[Jocko]

I'm not the field crew. I don't draw lines.

[Rich Ives]

My understanding of the obr rule is as follows. 

 

A batter may take any position inside the box as long as some part of both feet are in the box.   If you have a batter standing on the line then I would have him legally in the box. 

 

INCORRECT. Both feet must be entirely within the box. The lines are in the box.

 

 

I would not say anything to a batter who's  . . .  illegally crowding the plate.

 

If it's illegal it's because his foot/feet are not in the box so you have to correct it.

 

See comments above

[noumpere]

Is there an award for using the most words to ask a simple question?  If so, I nominate Aussie.

 

Rich is correct on the ruling when "ready" for the pitch -- entirely inside the box (and the box includes the lines).

 

The rule is different for hitting a pitch -- legal if the foot is partially in the box (and in some codes "not touching the plate").

[grayhawk]

1. Without lines, he's in the box.

 

 

I agree, to a point.  If the kid is toeing the plate, or if it's obvious that he is out of where the box should be, then I will say something.  But I am not going to get a frickin tape measure out to make sure every batter is in the non-existent box.

[guyinaredhat]

ok so to correct myself and make sure i understand

 

On the line but not over=legal

 

on the line and over =illegal

[Aussie123]

Thanks Grayhawk and Rich for your prompt validation. I realize many of you may be using your smart phones synced to this forum, so sorry if my post was wordy and filled a couple of phone screens. As I don't post often, I like to get my moneys worth! Especially, my apologies to noumpere, who must slowly move his lips to read!

 

All joking aside, my question [albeit lengthy] was more LL related. Given the vast majority of LL players never play baseball beyond LL, I tend to be more safety conscious in the volunteer games I do in LL. As an umpire, I only see a handful of LL players ever make it up to HS. Again, a good Varsity pitcher will not ever allow a batter to be out of the box!

[noumpere]

ok so to correct myself and make sure i understand

 

On the line but not over=legal

 

on the line and over =illegal

Correct -- as the better is taking his stance.

[Richvee]

 

1. Without lines, he's in the box.

 

 

I agree, to a point.  If the kid is toeing the plate, or if it's obvious that he is out of where the box should be, then I will say something.  But I am not going to get a frickin tape measure out to make sure every batter is in the non-existent box.

 

 

I've taken a bat to measure 3 feet back from the middle of the plate to mark the back edge of the box. However, as Grayhawk says, it's only been when the batter was obviously too far back to begin with. I'm certainly not going to pick nits here.