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coach argues check swing

PonyUmpire

By PonyUmpire
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PonyUmpire

PonyUmpire

Posted
Posted

JV game, I have the dish. HT batter squares to bunt, pushes his bat towards the ball, then quickly pulls his bat back after missing it. I call a swing, and immediately from the HT dugout, I hear "oh come on, he pulled the bat back!" I turn and see the HT manager calmly walking out toward me.

Me - "Bob, don't come out here and argue balls and strikes."

Coach - "I'm not arguing, I just want you to get help. He pulled the bat back"

Me - "I had him offering at the pitch Bob"

Coach - "Why can't you just ask your partner?"

Me - "I've already called a swing. It's not appealable"

Coach - "Okay", and walks back to the dugout.

After the game, my partner told me I should have asked for help to diffuse the situation. We agreed to disagree. What are your thoughts?

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Jocko
Jocko

glad youre finally able to come to terms with yourself. :smachhead:

wingman3110
wingman3110

You're right. Check swing strike is not appealable. 

grayhawk
grayhawk

Love how you handled it.  You partner picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.  

Lala

Lala

Posted
Posted

If my partner honestly thought I should/could ask for help on a strike, I'd consider asking not to work with him again.

My guess is that your partner would have said the batter pulled it back, that's why he thought you should ask for help.

If there was a close play at first and the coach asked him to appeal (on a non appealable call) would he have wanted you to get involved? I think not...

Jocko

Jocko

Posted
Posted

No help!!!

glad youre finally able to come to terms with yourself. :smachhead:
  • Like 2
BillKen

BillKen

Posted
Posted

You made a call...you didn't need help.  Once you make it, you own it.  Tell your partner to get some training.  That's a guy that doesn't get it.

CricketChapman

CricketChapman

Posted
Posted

If my partner honestly thought I should/could ask for help on a strike, I'd consider asking not to work with him again.

My guess is that your partner would have said the batter pulled it back, that's why he thought you should ask for help.

If there was a close play at first and the coach asked him to appeal (on a non appealable call) would he have wanted you to get involved? I think not...

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make. My point is it is explicitly listed in 9.02 that the plate umpire's call of a strike is not appealable - if my partner thought it was appealable, I would say his lack of knowledge is appalling.

catsbackr

catsbackr

Posted
Posted

JV game, I have the dish. HT batter squares to bunt, pushes his bat towards the ball, then quickly pulls his bat back after missing it. I call a swing, and immediately from the HT dugout, I hear "oh come on, he pulled the bat back!" I turn and see the HT manager calmly walking out toward me.

Me - "Bob, don't come out here and argue balls and strikes."

Coach - "I'm not arguing, I just want you to get help. He pulled the bat back"

 

ME - "THAT'S ARGUING BALLS AND STRIKES, COACH.  GO BACK TO YOUR DUGOUT, THAT'S YOUR WARNING.

(YOU DON'T NEED ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION)

Me - "I had him offering at the pitch Bob"

Coach - "Why can't you just ask your partner?"

Me - "I've already called a swing. It's not appealable"

Coach - "Okay", and walks back to the dugout.

After the game, my partner told me I should have asked for help to diffuse the situation. We agreed to disagree. What are your thoughts?

See above.

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

 

JV game, I have the dish. HT batter squares to bunt, pushes his bat towards the ball, then quickly pulls his bat back after missing it. I call a swing, and immediately from the HT dugout, I hear "oh come on, he pulled the bat back!" I turn and see the HT manager calmly walking out toward me.

Me - "Bob, don't come out here and argue balls and strikes."

Coach - "I'm not arguing, I just want you to get help. He pulled the bat back"

 

ME - "THAT'S ARGUING BALLS AND STRIKES, COACH.  GO BACK TO YOUR DUGOUT, THAT'S YOUR WARNING.

(YOU DON'T NEED ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION)

Me - "I had him offering at the pitch Bob"

Coach - "Why can't you just ask your partner?"

Me - "I've already called a swing. It's not appealable"

Coach - "Okay", and walks back to the dugout.

After the game, my partner told me I should have asked for help to diffuse the situation. We agreed to disagree. What are your thoughts?

See above.

 

WOW ....that's reda$$-ish ...isn't it?

 

What I would change is:

 

Me - "Bob, don't come out here and argue balls and strikes."

Coach - "I'm not arguing, I just want you to get help. He pulled the bat back"

Me - "I had him offering at the pitch Bob"

Coach - "Why can't you just ask your partner?"

Me - "I've already called a swing. It's not appealable"

Coach - "Okay", and walks back to the dugout.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If he's calmly walking out .... and wants to ask you a question, ...tell him, and send him back.  Telling him "don't come out here....." is setting an unapproachable tone ...

 

Now, ...if he's mad, and he's running out .......different story

 

my .02, YMMV

 

catsbackr

catsbackr

Posted
Posted

Not red-assish at all.

 

The first thing he told him was not to come out and argue balls and strikes.

 

The coach came out anyway to argue balls and strikes.

 

The coach was issued a warning for arguing balls and strikes.

 

How many times do you tell them before you warn them?  Two, three?  More?

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

Not red-assish at all.

 

The first thing he told him was not to come out and argue balls and strikes.

 

The coach came out anyway to argue balls and strikes.

 

The coach was issued a warning for arguing balls and strikes.

 

How many times do you tell them before you warn them?  Two, three?  More?

I didn't insinuate that you let him discuss it all day long....

 

forget it .... we're not going to see this the same way ....no biggie

noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted

Not red-assish at all.

 

The first thing he told him was not to come out and argue balls and strikes.

 

The coach came out anyway to argue balls and strikes.

 

The coach was issued a warning for arguing balls and strikes.

 

How many times do you tell them before you warn them?  Two, three?  More?

At this level, I generally first make it known that coming out on a check swing *is* arguing balls-and-strikes.

 

Then I proceed to the warning (if needed).

 

Too often, they know about arguing balls-and-strikes, but don't know about the check swing.  So, I prefer to educate with the fact before I educate with the experience.

  • Like 1
BalkHawk

BalkHawk

Posted
Posted

Well done.

In this case it seems like your partner has an occasion to learn.

Rule 9.02c Comment: The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing.

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing...

bleacher_bum

bleacher_bum

Posted
Posted

True story....I got confined to the dugout coaching a 12U team after PU called a check swing a strike (for a strikeout), then after offensive team dugout and fans start clamoring, PU allows the BU in A to help with the already called strike, and you guessed it, palms down.  

 

It does happen.

SoCal Lurker

SoCal Lurker

Posted
Posted

True story....I got confined to the dugout coaching a 12U team after PU called a check swing a strike (for a strikeout), then after offensive team dugout and fans start clamoring, PU allows the BU in A to help with the already called strike, and you guessed it, palms down.  

 

It does happen.

 

Well, all kinds of $%@#$ happens when umpires have inadequate training or dedication to understanding the game . . . I watched a BU call a runner safe at first and the PU overrule him in a PONY Regional tournament.  WTF?!?  (Protest to on site tournament director that umpire can't overrule another was denied on the ground that judgement calls can't be protested.) 

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