Interference on infield fly rule

[tiger79]

What is the ruling on the following - bases loaded, infield fly rule is announced by umpire on pop up, runner interferes with catch attempt and ball is dropped?

[maven]

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

 

Same in all codes.

[JaxRolo]

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

 

Same in all codes.

^^^This^^^  Nothing more to it.

[Thunderheads]

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

 

Same in all codes.

Ok ... this makes sense, and maybe I'm overthinking this....but ...

 

IFF, ... B/R is out anyhow whether the fielder catches it  or drops it.

 

INT is a dead ball,  runner is out for INT on a catch that doesn't matter?

 

Just thinking out loud

[maven]

INT is a dead ball,  runner is out for INT on a catch that doesn't matter?

Matter to whom? The kid who has a perfect fielding percentage? The R3 who's going to sneak home while the defense ignores him? Everyone who's bored because the score is 27-1?

 

The rules prohibit runners from interfering with a fielder playing a batted ball. There is no "it didn't matter" exception. Keep it simple.

[Thunderheads]

 

INT is a dead ball,  runner is out for INT on a catch that doesn't matter?

Matter to whom? The kid who has a perfect fielding percentage? The R3 who's going to sneak home while the defense ignores him? Everyone who's bored because the score is 27-1?

 

The rules prohibit runners from interfering with a fielder playing a batted ball. There is no "it didn't matter" exception. Keep it simple.

 

I'm posting "forget it" as you posted maven ..... it's protecting the defense from anything else happening on the 'drop' ...... I'm having a mindscrambling day for sure!

[noumpere]

 

Ok ... this makes sense, and maybe I'm overthinking this....but ...

 

 

IFF, ... B/R is out anyhow whether the fielder catches it  or drops it.

 

INT is a dead ball,  runner is out for INT on a catch that doesn't matter?

 

Just thinking out loud

 

Well, the "out loud" part was accurate.

[BigUmpire]

Wow. Beat up on the Sheriff of Detroit day!

Damn Jeff your dog will probably bite you when you get home as well.

[FlaUmp22]

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

Nothing after the INT matter except for whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Same in all codes.

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out.

Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

[ALStripes17]

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

Nothing after the INT matter except for whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Same in all codes.

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out.

Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

If the ball is caught in foul territory, the batter goes back to bat?

[Thunderheads]

Ok ... this makes sense, and maybe I'm overthinking this....but ...

IFF, ... B/R is out anyhow whether the fielder catches it or drops it.

INT is a dead ball, runner is out for INT on a catch that doesn't matter?

Just thinking out loud

Well, the "out loud" part was accurate.

I know ....I'm a dork today!! Lol

Jeff - via Tapatalk

[maven]

 

 

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

Nothing after the INT matter except for whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Same in all codes.

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out.

Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

 

If the ball is caught in foul territory, the batter goes back to bat?

 

 

Yes. FED is the same: 8.4.2 B.

[maven]

 

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

Nothing after the INT matter except for whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Same in all codes.

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out.

Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

 

 

You're right to point out that enforcement will vary depending on whether it was in fact an infield fly. I interpreted the OP to be saying that it was in fact an IFF, in which case there's no need to wait.

 

Good point on leaving it live if you don't know whether it is fair or foul. Again, in the OP, the fly ball was touched, so we'd kill it immediately.

[FlaUmp22]

 

 

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

Nothing after the INT matter except for whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Same in all codes.

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out.

Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

 

 

You're right to point out that enforcement will vary depending on whether it was in fact an infield fly. I interpreted the OP to be saying that it was in fact an IFF, in which case there's no need to wait.

 

Good point on leaving it live if you don't know whether it is fair or foul. Again, in the OP, the fly ball was touched, so we'd kill it immediately.

 

 

Thats the way I read it too just wanted to make sure we had everything covered

[ALStripes17]

Yes, knew that. Pretty lengthy discussion on 8-4-2 a month ago or so (getting double plays on INT). Was curious if Pro interp was any different.

[maven]

Yes, knew that. Pretty lengthy discussion on 8-4-2 a month ago or so (getting double plays on INT). Was curious if Pro interp was any different.

 

Right, I remember. In fact, my research suggests that the FED interp is based on the pro interp for these plays. That's not a good choice, because the pro rule for when to get 2 outs is different from FED's: for FED, since a DP is possible without INT on a foul pop-up, there is a rule-based reason to get 2 outs here.

 

The rule is different in OBR, which is why it's just 1 out for interfering with a fielder on a pop foul, and the BR resumes his at-bat.

[Jimurray]

I think FlaUmp22 is referring to a ruling about an MLB play we debated. Lets say R3 interfered with F5 as F5 was standing under a just fair ball on the 3B line. The ball drops untouched and bounces into foul territory. In OBR, as far as I know, R3 is out and the batter returns to the plate with a foul ball added or not added to the count. I don't know how FEd and NCAA would rule that.

In the OP of course, the ball was dropped, so you would rule IFF or not on the location of the touch.

[Guest newumppper]

 

 

 

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

Nothing after the INT matter except for whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Same in all codes.

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out.

Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

 

If the ball is caught in foul territory, the batter goes back to bat?

 

 

Yes. FED is the same: 8.4.2 B.

 

Im sorry this seems WRONG to me - but I am very NEW to umpiring!

 

how is the batter going back to bat here??????

Isnt the batter OUT on a FOUL POPUP if it is caught? (not going back to bat....)

[JaxRolo]

 

 

 

 

INT. The runner is out for the INT, BR is out on the IFF, the ball is dead, other runners return (if there were no outs). The fielder dropped a dead ball.

Nothing after the INT matter except for whether the ball becomes fair or foul

Same in all codes.

Not sure about the HS ruling (not too familiar with FED) but the Pro ruling requires you to keep the ball alive after the INT until you determine whether the ball is fair or foul. If the ball becomes foul (or if caught in foul territory) the batter goes back to bat because the IFF doesn't apply. The runner is still out.

Nothing after the INT matters however, except whether the ball becomes fair or foul

 

If the ball is caught in foul territory, the batter goes back to bat?

 

 

Yes. FED is the same: 8.4.2 B.

 

Im sorry this seems WRONG to me - but I am very NEW to umpiring!

 

how is the batter going back to bat here??????

Isnt the batter OUT on a FOUL POPUP if it is caught? (not going back to bat....)

 

Int happened first. Immediate dead ball. (After determining fair/foul) so whatever happens after the INT (unless fair) doesn't matter. (If in foul territory)

[Guest newumpppper]

So if it was fair - then we would have the Runner out on INT and batter out on the infield fly? 

But because it was foul the catch is negated and just the runner is out?

 

 

[JaxRolo]

So if it was fair - then we would have the Runner out on INT and batter out on the infield fly? 

But because it was foul the catch is negated and just the runner is out?

You got it!

 

And I know it doesn't seem right but it is.

And when you make that call you know there will be an argument coming!

[Mike Prince]

Think of it this way - we have an IFR situation.  The ball is hit, the umpire says "Infield fly, the batter is out if fair".  So if fair, the batter has already been called out.  Then we get the INT on the attempted fair ball catch.  That's out #2.

 

If the ball is foul, it is no longer an infield fly (so the batter is not out) and the ball is immediately dead on the INT.  So you can only get one out here regardless of catch or no catch since the INT kills all action following it.

[JaxRolo]

Think of it this way - we have an IFR situation.  The ball is hit, the umpire says "Infield fly, the batter is out if fair".  So if fair, the batter has already been called out.  Then we get the INT on the attempted fair ball catch.  That's out #2.

 

If the ball is foul, it is no longer an infield fly (so the batter is not out) and the ball is immediately dead on the INT.  So you can only get one out here regardless of catch or no catch since the INT kills all action following it.

Isn't that what I said?!?!?

 

You just said it better!

[maven]

Think of it this way - we have an IFR situation.  The ball is hit, the umpire says "Infield fly, the batter is out if fair".  So if fair, the batter has already been called out.  Then we get the INT on the attempted fair ball catch.  That's out #2.

 

If the ball is foul, it is no longer an infield fly (so the batter is not out) and the ball is immediately dead on the INT.  So you can only get one out here regardless of catch or no catch since the INT kills all action following it.

 

Right.

 

Someone will be along to say: how do you know if it was foul until it's touched? And if you leave it live until it is touched, why wouldn't a subsequent catch count?

 

Per the earlier advice in this thread, we should leave the ball live until its fair/foul status is determined. If a fielder touches it over foul territory, then it is foul. Since touching precedes a completed catch, it becomes dead on the touch, and the ball is dead when the fielder completes the catch.

[ALStripes17]

So you can only get one out here regardless of catch or no catch since the INT kills all action following it.

BUT!!!

We have authority in FED to get 2 outs if we believe a DP was possible sans INT :)

[maven]

 

So you can only get one out here regardless of catch or no catch since the INT kills all action following it.

BUT!!!

We have authority in FED to get 2 outs if we believe a DP was possible sans INT

 

 

That's the general procedure, correct.

 

However, the specific case ruling in 8.4.2 B on this exact play trumps the general procedure. FED wants this a foul ball, batter back to the box.