NFHS re-entry

[Guest HS Coach]

Louisiana HS Baseball, NFHS rules. Yesterday I was DH for my RF in the 8 hole. After 3 innings, I entered my DH into the game to play 3rd base, removing my RF. Thus eliminating the DH. In the 5th the oringnal DH, now 3rd baseman, singled and I wanted to re-enter the orignal RF being DH'd for. The umpires allowed this as the original RF was a starter and was using his re-entry. BUT at thid time they told me that my original DH was dead. NO Way!! I informed them that the original DH who went into the game on defense in the 4th was an original starter whom has never left the game how could he be dead. I was told to go to the dugout. I no this was wrong.

another question I have is in Louisiana we have a no protest rule. How am I suppose to handle this. If i just continue on and play I would lose a protest as we played on. If i pull the team we forfiet. If i insisted the substitue plays then the umpires my forfiet the game.

Any help would be apprieciated.

[johnnyg08]

The position of DH is gone, but ALL starters have reentry privilege.

[tldavis19]

once you place the DH in the game, you can no longer use the DH role. Once he enters the game, you lose the right to a DH for the entirety of the game.

 

The RF you placed in the game and the DH occupy the same position in the batting order. When you put the DH in the game, he took over that spot in the order. At that point your ex-DH/third baseman is in the 8 hole. Your new RF takes over where the old third baseman batted. the problem you encountered here is that your old RF has to occupy the 8 order in the lineup where your ex-DH/third baseman currently resides. When you put the old RF in you must now replace your ex-DH/third baseman because both individuals cannot occupy the same spot in the lineup. What makes you lose the player is that both your original RF and ex-DH are LOCKED into the 8 hole. There's no way around it. While all starters have reentry privilege, starters are also stuck with their batting order position. if you want the ex-DH to reenter, you have to remove and replace the original RF. 

 

Example:

1. Smith LF

2. James 2B

3. Jones 3B

4. Travis SS

5. Ashley CF

6. McGee 1B

7. Parsons C

8. Harrison RF

9. Gregg p

DH. Benjamin

 

Benjamin is DH for Harrison in RF

Harrison and Jones are pulled.

Benjamin replaces Jones on the field at 3B but MUST remain in the 8 hole

Rice replaces Harrison in RF but bats in the vacant 3 hole left by Jones.

You decide you want to pull Rice and put Harrison back in RF

you MUST put Harrison back in the 8 hole that Benjamin currently resides in therefore removing Benjamin from the game.

You cannot put Benjamin back as a DH because by putting him in the field, you have permanently burned the DH position.

Benjamin having DH'd for the 8 hole is also tied to the 8 hole and cannot be put in the vacant 3 hole because of this.

Therefore you must find a new third baseman to occupy the 3 hole.

 

Think of it like this. the DH and who they bat for are one person. you cannot put one person in two positions on the field or in two separate spots on your batting order.

 

Can he reenter? Yes, but if he does so you must remove the original player being DH'd for thus burning the RF for the rest of the game because he has already reentered. Technically the third baseman CAN return, but you must remove the RF at that time.

 

I hope this answers your question.

[tldavis19]

If I'm wrong please correct me lol

[Jimurray]

once you place the DH in the game, you can no longer use the DH role. Once he enters the game, you lose the right to a DH for the entirety of the game.

 

The RF you placed in the game and the DH occupy the same position in the batting order. When you put the DH in the game, he took over that spot in the order. At that point your ex-DH/third baseman is in the 8 hole. Your new RF takes over where the old third baseman batted. the problem you encountered here is that your old RF has to occupy the 8 order in the lineup where your ex-DH/third baseman currently resides. When you put the old RF in you must now replace your ex-DH/third baseman because both individuals cannot occupy the same spot in the lineup. What makes you lose the player is that both your original RF and ex-DH are LOCKED into the 8 hole. There's no way around it. While all starters have reentry privilege, starters are also stuck with their batting order position. if you want the ex-DH to reenter, you have to remove and replace the original RF. 

 

Example:

1. Smith LF

2. James 2B

3. Jones 3B

4. Travis SS

5. Ashley CF

6. McGee 1B

7. Parsons C

8. Harrison RF

9. Gregg p

DH. Benjamin

 

Benjamin is DH for Harrison in RF

Harrison and Jones are pulled.

Benjamin replaces Jones on the field at 3B but MUST remain in the 8 hole

Rice replaces Harrison in RF but bats in the vacant 3 hole left by Jones.

You decide you want to pull Rice and put Harrison back in RF

you MUST put Harrison back in the 8 hole that Benjamin currently resides in therefore removing Benjamin from the game.

You cannot put Benjamin back as a DH because by putting him in the field, you have permanently burned the DH position.

Benjamin having DH'd for the 8 hole is also tied to the 8 hole and cannot be put in the vacant 3 hole because of this.

Therefore you must find a new third baseman to occupy the 3 hole.

 

Think of it like this. the DH and who they bat for are one person. you cannot put one person in two positions on the field or in two separate spots on your batting order.

 

Can he reenter? Yes, but if he does so you must remove the original player being DH'd for thus burning the RF for the rest of the game because he has already reentered. Technically the third baseman CAN return, but you must remove the RF at that time.

 

I hope this answers your question.

He knows this. That is what he wanted to do. The umpires didn't know this. Texas, a no protest state, now has a rules misapplication report that anyone can submit because of situations like this. If the report is correct the umpires will be corrected by their chapter.

[tldavis19]

I get excited when I actually know something, but I wanted thoroughly explain so that there was no confusion with my answer.

[law_reb]

I worked a game with a new head coach the other night.  He had been a college assistant for the last eight years since his playing days ended.  It was his first game trying to manage NFHS subs.  This same situation came up during the game.  He was dumbfounded that two guys could occupy the same spot in the batting order, could each be removed from the game and then put back in. 

[maven]

Coach, you were correct. What can we learn from that?
 

After 3 innings, I entered my DH into the game to play 3rd base, removing my RF. Thus eliminating the DH.

 
1. When you put your DH in the game on defense, I would encourage you to verify with the umpire that this is NOT a substitution and thus the DH is not using his re-entry privilege. Terminating the role of the DH does not terminate a player's re-entry.
 

In the 5th the oringnal DH, now 3rd baseman, singled and I wanted to re-enter the original RF being DH'd for. The umpires allowed this as the original RF was a starter and was using his re-entry. BUT at this time they told me that my original DH was dead.

 
2. Had you followed suggestion #1, the rest of it probably would not have happened. But since it did, I'd encourage you to start with a question for the umpire: when did the DH leave the game? Since he never left the game (was never substituted for), he could not possibly have used his re-entry privilege. If he never used his re-entry, then he still has it.
 

another question I have is in Louisiana we have a no protest rule. How am I suppose to handle this.

3. All you can do is encourage your crew to discuss the question with each other. In states that do not allow protests, the umpire's ruling is final, and you would just have to do what you did. If it makes you feel better, e-mail the situation to the local association so that future crews get it right.

[catsbackr]

I worked a game with a new head coach the other night.  He had been a college assistant for the last eight years since his playing days ended.  It was his first game trying to manage NFHS subs.  This same situation came up during the game.  He was dumbfounded that two guys could occupy the same spot in the batting order, could each be removed from the game and then put back in. 

NCAA DH/P rules are much more complicated than Fed.  If the coach understood NCAA rules, he should have easily understood Fed.

[ALStripes17]

How is NCAA DH rule more complicated?

[noumpere]

How is NCAA DH rule more complicated?

You can have one player be both P and DH.

 

You can go from a 9-man lineup to a 10- back to a 9 (and vice versa).

 

It takes 3 or 4 pages in the NCAA book -- which is available on line so you can check it out

[ALStripes17]

That's what I thought.

Sans re-entry rule, I thought the NCAA kept it pretty easy to follow. (I played NCAA recently, have not called at that level)

[noumpere]

That's what I thought.

Sans re-entry rule, I thought the NCAA kept it pretty easy to follow. (I played NCAA recently, have not called at that level)

If the coach doesn't do anything silly, it's easy.  But, it's also very flexible and when the coach tries to use that flexibility, it's very confusing.

[ALStripes17]

Makes sense. Cool, thanks for the feedback @noumpere!