A story from a friend

[Pete Peterson Sr]

One of my best friends works in a local HS association (not mine). At a varsity game the other night, after the plate meeting, the visiting head coach says "Blue, if you hear an outburst from my dugout, it won't be me". Friend says "what are you trying to tell me, coach ?" Coach tells him that there is a player on his roster with Tourette Syndrome. Fourth inning, my buddy hears "f*%$ - **** - ****" come out of the dugout. Not excessively loud, but audible. Our state has a stringent, zero-tolerance policy on profanity. My friend was at a loss on what to do ? Eject a kid who really might not be able to control the problem ? Is that a violation of the ADA ? What would you have done ?

 

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[BRUMP]

wow thats tough…..if it was just once and it was obviously not directed at a call and no one else heard it…id prob turn a blind eye

[BigUmpire]

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

[catcher]

Heard a similar story from one of the veterans in my association. F2 had Tourrette's, and he spit constantly for the whole game. Near the batters' feet and everything. Apparently the other team thought the catcher was just being obnoxious and the situation almost escalated.

[maven]

It's a disability. IMO coach handled it correctly, and I'd leave it alone.

 

Not telling anyone how they should handle it, just what I would do.

 

Edited to add: a core FED principle is increasing participation. Keeping this kid out of the game undermines that principle, apart from any ideas about ADA, political correctness, or other bugaboos.

[conbo61]

Just out of curiosity, did the VC mention this in front of the Home Coach?  The only reason I ask is if the HC hears the outburst and then wonders why the PU did not act, it could make for a messy situation.

 

If the HC was not privy to this, would you go over to him and discreetly inform him of the situation?

[MidAmUmp]

In Missouri, and I would assume across the US, under NFHS rules an ejected player must remain in the dugout. I guess there was an incident a few years ago where a kid was thrown out, jumped in his car, drove off pissed and died in a wreck.

Having said that, I wouldn't eject the kid just to let him to continue to sit on the bench and continue cussing. I'd recommend contacting your state association to get their suggestion on how to handle this. This is an ADA situation and you'd better get their backing before doing anything.

[Replacematt]

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

That's a dumb rule.

[BigUmpire]

 

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

That's a dumb rule.

 

What the hell do you mean!

[Replacematt]

 

 

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

That's a dumb rule.

 

What the hell do you mean!

 

 

I don't think I could have been any more clear.

[BigUmpire]

 

 

 

 

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

That's a dumb rule.

 

What the hell do you mean!

 

 

I don't think I could have been any more clear.

 

Clearly this person does not know the difference between an offender and a person that has been made to feel uncomfortable in my post.

 

Back to school for you bucko!

[rjt6]

That's a real tough one - if I were in that situation I would let it go because the kid obviously has a disability. If it happens again (I'm not sure if this works) but I may go over and ask the coach to talk to the kid and tell him to calm down because if other people could hear it, then it would kind of be an awkward situation.

[mjr_2013]

I feel like this is the type of story we'll see in the paper: "Local bad-guy umpire ejects defenseless, disabled child"

 

Definitely check with your association if you know this could come up in one of your games.

 

If the coach alerted me and the opposite coach to the situation beforehand, and the cussing had to do with the disability, and NOT my actions on the field, I'd probably do nothing. Now if the cussing came after a bang-bang play at the plate that went against him, well then sorry dude, you're done. Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

 

This one's a tough situation to be put in for sure.

[VAUmp]

I called a game last year where a kid had TS.  The coach of the team informed us at the plate meeting.  He didn't have verbal ticks, but physical ticks.  It was his first year trying to pitch as well.  The coach told me that his head is going to bob up and down at times.  Well, he was right.  The kid would set, and his head would fall back as if he was looking into the sky, then it would come back.  He also would take a long time (more than 20 seconds) to deliver the pitch.  

I did not balk him once (neither did my partner).  Although he clearly was balking.  Now this was a 13 year old BR game.  So we had some flexibility.

As a teacher of special needs students, I would never balk him for that.  I don't believe that strict enforcement of the rules should preclude this you man from pitching.  Neither team had a problem with it either.  
 

I think it is much more important that this young man be able to participate in youth sports, than to enforce every rule on him which would make his physical disability more of a disadvantage to his team.
 

I may be in the minority here, but I'd never discipline a player because of a condition he has no control over.  

Just my $0.02

[maven]

I called a game last year where a kid had TS.  The coach of the team informed us at the plate meeting.  He didn't have verbal ticks, but physical ticks.  It was his first year trying to pitch as well.  The coach told me that his head is going to bob up and down at times. 

 

Reminds me of a JV football game I worked years ago, where an offensive lineman had physical tics. His butt would bob up and down before the snap.

 

Oh the screams from the other sideline about false starts, and how they fell on deaf ears...

[Replacematt]

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

That's a dumb rule.

What the hell do you mean!

 

I don't think I could have been any more clear.

Clearly this person does not know the difference between an offender and a person that has been made to feel uncomfortable in my post.

 

Back to school for you bucko!

What's the matter? Your original post get moderated?

I'm quite aware of what you said. It seems that you have issues with people calling out things that are stupid. I would suggest that you give up the amateur reading-comprehension analysis and start learning the proper way to enforce conduct rules.

[Thunderheads]

 

 

 

 

 

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

That's a dumb rule. What the hell do you mean!  

I don't think I could have been any more clear. Clearly this person does not know the difference between an offender and a person that has been made to feel uncomfortable in my post.

 

Back to school for you bucko!

What's the matter? Your original post get moderated?

I'm quite aware of what you said. It seems that you have issues with people calling out things that are stupid. I would suggest that you give up the amateur reading-comprehension analysis and start learning the proper way to enforce conduct rules.

 

Guys ...

both of you ........ knock it off before someone gets pi$$ed.

 

BigUmpire deleted his own post Matt, so you're wrong.  And, it sounds like he's got 'local' rules on his side.  If you don't agree with said rules, that's fine, but it doesn't effect you.

 

Now everyone chill out, ... it's going to be just fine

[Larry in TN]

If it happens again (I'm not sure if this works) but I may go over and ask the coach to talk to the kid and tell him to calm down because if other people could hear it, then it would kind of be an awkward situation.

 

It doesn't work that way.  If they could control it, it wouldn't be a disability.  From what I understand, putting additional pressure on them is more likely to make it worse, not better.

 

 

Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

 

A person with Turrets can't control their tics and outbursts.  The stress of a call going against them is the type of thing that can trigger an outburst.  In order for them to be showing you up it would have to be something that is under their control.

[rjt6]

 

If it happens again (I'm not sure if this works) but I may go over and ask the coach to talk to the kid and tell him to calm down because if other people could hear it, then it would kind of be an awkward situation.

 

It doesn't work that way.  If they could control it, it wouldn't be a disability.  From what I understand, putting additional pressure on them is more likely to make it worse, not better.

Your probably right @Larry in TN

[Larry in TN]

I think the best you can do is make sure everyone involved is aware of the problem so as to avoid negative reactions to the tics.

[rjt6]

 Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

I completely DISAGREE with that. If I call a kid with Turrets (or however you spell it) out on a close play, and I know he has that disability, and he starts screaming profanity, I would just let it go.

[mjr_2013]

 

 Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

I completely DISAGREE with that. If I call a kid with Turrets (or however you spell it) out on a close play, and I know he has that disability, and he starts screaming profanity, I would just let it go.

 

What's that tell EVERYONE else?

 

What about when a kid on the other side sees that, does the same exact thing, and I toss him? What's that look like? "He can do it because the coach told me he would do it before the game."

[Kevin_K]

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

I don't necessarily mean to poke the hornet's nest, but who is the judge of uncomfortable? Does the line move based on who is in attendance?

 

This situation is rather unique and requires accomodation rather than a line in sand. I would venture a guess that the player does not want to have Tourette's and is trying to live as typical an existence as possible. I bet even Grandma or 4 year old Johnny might even know the lad and understand his condition. If they don't, an opportunity exists to educate about Tourette's and how those afflicted are more like everyone else rather than different. They might even admire the kid for his achievements.

 

The coach's pre-emptive advice is akin to how umpires should practice preventive umpiring before situations escalate. If the other coach squawks, have a man to man talk about what's right versus what the rule book says.

[rjt6]

 

 

 Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

I completely DISAGREE with that. If I call a kid with Turrets (or however you spell it) out on a close play, and I know he has that disability, and he starts screaming profanity, I would just let it go.

 

What's that tell EVERYONE else?

 

What about when a kid on the other side sees that, does the same exact thing, and I toss him? What's that look like? "He can do it because the coach told me he would do it before the game."

The kid with Tourette's has an uncontrolled disability. The kid on the other team is just acting like an idiot

[mjr_2013]

 

 

 

 Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

I completely DISAGREE with that. If I call a kid with Turrets (or however you spell it) out on a close play, and I know he has that disability, and he starts screaming profanity, I would just let it go.

 

What's that tell EVERYONE else?

 

What about when a kid on the other side sees that, does the same exact thing, and I toss him? What's that look like? "He can do it because the coach told me he would do it before the game."

The kid with Tourette's has an uncontrolled disability. The kid on the other team is just acting like an idiot

 

I understand that, but then where we draw the line? If he throws his helmet and it hits me or the catcher, do I let it go because of his disability? 

 

I'm having problems with this entire situation... On one hand, I'm all about inclusion, the kid has every right to play high school baseball if he made the team... On the other, it isn't fair to the 12 players who are on the opposite team if we have two standards.

 

I hope my assigner is smart enough to give me a heads up if something like this ever comes up in my games.