A story from a friend

[Replacematt]

 

 

 

 

 Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

I completely DISAGREE with that. If I call a kid with Turrets (or however you spell it) out on a close play, and I know he has that disability, and he starts screaming profanity, I would just let it go.

 

What's that tell EVERYONE else?

 

What about when a kid on the other side sees that, does the same exact thing, and I toss him? What's that look like? "He can do it because the coach told me he would do it before the game."

The kid with Tourette's has an uncontrolled disability. The kid on the other team is just acting like an idiot

 

I understand that, but then where we draw the line? If he throws his helmet and it hits me or the catcher, do I let it go because of his disability? 

That has nothing to do with Tourette's.

[Replacematt]

Guys ...

both of you ........ knock it off before someone gets pi$$ed.

Knock what off?

 

BigUmpire deleted his own post Matt, so you're wrong.

 

I didn't make any statements that could be right or wrong. I asked a question.

 

And, it sounds like he's got 'local' rules on his side.  If you don't agree with said rules, that's fine, but it doesn't effect you.

99% of the posts on here don't affect the people responding. I'll respond to what I feel like, thank you very much.

 

Now everyone chill out, ... it's going to be just fine

I am chill.

[mjr_2013]

 

 

 

 

 

 Disability or not, an umpire can't be shown up like that.

I completely DISAGREE with that. If I call a kid with Turrets (or however you spell it) out on a close play, and I know he has that disability, and he starts screaming profanity, I would just let it go.

 

What's that tell EVERYONE else?

 

What about when a kid on the other side sees that, does the same exact thing, and I toss him? What's that look like? "He can do it because the coach told me he would do it before the game."

The kid with Tourette's has an uncontrolled disability. The kid on the other team is just acting like an idiot

 

I understand that, but then where we draw the line? If he throws his helmet and it hits me or the catcher, do I let it go because of his disability? 

That has nothing to do with Tourette's.

 

Tourette's often involves tics as well, correct? I admit I'm not educated on the subject, and if I'm wrong I apologize, but I thought that tics can involve throwing things, swearing, etc.

[mjr_2013]

There is a precedent, with a 14 year old in British soccer game... The referee gave him a red card, and the league fined him and suspended him 2 games. The suspension and fine were later reduced, but it's happened publicly before.

 

Warning: Strong language

 

.

[Replacematt]

Swearing, yes. Physically violent actions, not so much.

http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/disorders/rage-attacks-or-storms/overview-of-rage-attacks/

[mjr_2013]

Hopefully no one takes offense to this. Found it while searching the subject and found it hilarious!!
 

.

[BigUmpire]

 

As tough as it sounds he has to go.

 

We have a rule here that if anyone is uncomfortable, players, coaches, umpires and umpires we remove the offender.

My sweet, very southern 85 year old motherinlaw would not like to hear this and I would not want my grandchildern to hear this as well.

If is loud enough to get out of the dugout there are lots of people that would get uncomfortable.

Sorry

 

I don't necessarily mean to poke the hornet's nest, but who is the judge of uncomfortable? Does the line move based on who is in attendance?

 

This situation is rather unique and requires accomodation rather than a line in sand. I would venture a guess that the player does not want to have Tourette's and is trying to live as typical an existence as possible. I bet even Grandma or 4 year old Johnny might even know the lad and understand his condition. If they don't, an opportunity exists to educate about Tourette's and how those afflicted are more like everyone else rather than different. They might even admire the kid for his achievements.

 

The coach's pre-emptive advice is akin to how umpires should practice preventive umpiring before situations escalate. If the other coach squawks, have a man to man talk about what's right versus what the rule book says.

 

As always the umpires of the game are the judges. It could move, yes.

Adult mens softball with almost no one in the stands, sure.

10U rec with grandma and little sister there, sure.

Think about this and it is not hard to figure out.

 

BUT I assure you a young man uttering cusswords at a level that the umpire at home plate can hear WILL be in the stands.

 

Unless a sign is posted stating a player has this disability and may do this does not seem correct.

 

Sorry all this young man is professionally removed from my game.

[johnnyg08]

If I know beforehand that the player has TS.  I'm going to let the language go. 

 

If nobody tells be beforehand that player is held to the same standard as everybody else.

 

I've had this situation before.  HC told everybody at the plate meeting.  It's easy to handle.  You can only know what you know.  If you don't know, (meaning, nobody tells you), then there's only one way to handle it.

[Thunderheads]

Guys ...

both of you ........ knock it off before someone gets pi$$ed.

Knock what off?

 

the bickering .....it's preventative......

 

BigUmpire deleted his own post Matt, so you're wrong.

 

I didn't make any statements that could be right or wrong. I asked a question.

 

True,...however.... you made an assumption that his post was moderated.  I clarified that your assumption was wrong ....

 

And, it sounds like he's got 'local' rules on his side.  If you don't agree with said rules, that's fine, but it doesn't effect you.

99% of the posts on here don't affect the people responding. I'll respond to what I feel like, thank you very much.

 

Go re-read the post, I never said not to respond, or that you can't.  I said, that BigUmpire has a local rule he can use, ...it doesn't effect how you umpire, or where you umpire

 

Now everyone chill out, ... it's going to be just fine

I am chill.

 

good ....

 

side note that's not directed at Matt:

This is the stuff that irritates me the most about being a moderator.  You try to prevent people from getting into a pi$$ing match and it's frowned upon.  However, let it get 'pi$$y', and you get IM's asking to correct the issue from posters involved .... ....

 

[grayhawk]

This is the stuff that irritates me the most about being a moderator.  You try to prevent people from getting into a pi$$ing match and it's frowned upon.  However, let it get 'pi$$y', and you get IM's asking to correct the issue from posters involved .... ....

 

So you're saying that only half the people are happy no matter what you do?  Sounds like an avocation that some of us share...

[Thunderheads]

 

This is the stuff that irritates me the most about being a moderator.  You try to prevent people from getting into a pi$$ing match and it's frowned upon.  However, let it get 'pi$$y', and you get IM's asking to correct the issue from posters involved .... ....

 

So you're saying that only half the people are happy no matter what you do?  Sounds like an avocation that some of us share...

 

I was thinking the same thing while typing it ....... that's good!

 

(hmmm, this sounds familiar!)

[BigUmpire]

 

 

This is the stuff that irritates me the most about being a moderator.  You try to prevent people from getting into a pi$$ing match and it's frowned upon.  However, let it get 'pi$$y', and you get IM's asking to correct the issue from posters involved .... ....

 

So you're saying that only half the people are happy no matter what you do?  Sounds like an avocation that some of us share...

 

I was thinking the same thing while typing it ....... that's good!

 

(hmmm, this sounds familiar!)

 

Umpire Bumper Sticker:

• “After the first pitch, one side will like you and the other side will hate you. After the second pitch, it reverses.†-plateumpire 

[tldavis19]

My fiance has Tourettes. There a few things that I have learned that are irritating to people with TS. Just for educational purposes for everyone who doesn't deal with this on a daily basis, I'll list somethings associated with TS.

 

1. Never tell them to "calm down." They cannot control it and telling them to calm down will only make them self conscious and increase ticks.

2. Don't draw attention to the individual or the ticks. Same reason as above. Treat them normally and ignore the ticks if possible.

3. If you can, just try to let everyone know the situation. The best way to handle it is to educate people on the situation. The more relaxed the individual is, the less they tick.

4. Again remember that this is uncontrollable. Completely and entirely. There is no medicine to make it go away or to make ticks stop.

5. Do what you can to let the player settle in. The more comfortable they are, the less they tick. Let them get lost in the game and you'll be surprised how you don't notice anything.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I'm pleasantly surprised at the level of discussion my post has brought on. I figured it would get two, maybe three replies,at most.

[scrounge]

Unless the actions were clearly and indistinguishably directed at an umpire or in direct response to a call, there's no way I'd remove a kid for swearing or balk a kid for a tic, if I knew he had it. Trying to say it afterwards in an argumentative manner, not quite as sympathetic, but if briefed before hand, then accomodations will be made. And it has full rules support:

 

1-5-8 (in the equipment section but not directly limited to it)

 

"Each state association may, in keeping with applicable laws, authorize exceptions to NFHS playing rules to provide reasonable accomodations to individual participants with disabilities and/or special needs, as well as those individuals with unique and extenuating circumstances. The accomodations should not fundamentally alter the sport, allow an otherwise illegal piece of equipment, create risk to the athlete/others, or place opponents at a disadvantage."

 

It would be weaselly in the highest order to think that accomodating special needs players extends only to equipment or to fall back on "well, the state association didn't provide me a letter for this exact incidence". The intent is clear and unmistakeable - as is the law - reasonable accomodations are to be made.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I'm not certain about other states, but in mine, an ejected player MUST remain in the dugout, under the immediate control of the HC. So, if one were to eject a player with Tourettes Syndrome, what would be gained ? The player with uncontrollable outbursts would still be on the bench, and likely having more uncontrolled outbursts.

[LRZ]

As a lawyer (although I don't practice that kind of law), it occurred to me that throwing a kid with Tourette syndrome out for something he could not control might make the league and umpires liable, perhaps as a "public accommodations" issue, under the ADA, especially after receiving notice as in the OP. Even if an individual umpire were ultimately found not liable, a lawsuit (and expense of defending) would seem likely. I know that, if I had a kid with a disability, I'd want a league to consider making reasonable accommodations for that disability.

[Nazrat]

Last year, I was in B and the LF kept making crazy whooping noises constantly.  It was almost every pitch that would result in him whooping loudly and then sneezing.

 

I turned to the SS and asked if the LF was going to do that all game.  He told me that the LF had Tourette's.  I said OK and turned around.  We never discussed it again. 

 

This was HS varsity and it never became an issue once I knew that it was involuntary.  He played the whole game.  There was never an issue at the plate, on the bases, or in the field with him. 

 

I was slightly embarassed with myself for asking the question but later realized that any LF creating that much noise is going to draw attention.  If the coach would have mentioned it at the plate meeting, it would have made it easier for the umpires. 

 

Just a story. 

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Follow up : An umpire that had a hand in training called me the other day. He said was on his way home from a DII game, and stopped for a burger. While he was there, a baseball coach came up to him, and apologized for any outbursts that he might hear from one of the coach's players. The reason ? He has Tourette's. That's right....same team. And as a sidebar, I had somehow forgotten what school this team was from. I had them in the state playoffs about five years ago, at their place. They lost in three games, and their fans were vicious. I actually had to run their head coach out of our locker room accommodations, when he decided that he would come in and tell my crew just what he thought of our abilities. He told me that "this is my office, and you can't make me leave". I pointed out that I was representing the State HS Association, and that he should vacate immediately, or deal with the state after I made a report of his action.