CCA vs pro mechanics

[PonyUmpire]

The high school group that I'm joining this year uses CCA 2-4 man mechanics. As someone who is very familiar with PBUC 2 man mechanics, how much of an adjustment will I have to make?

[PonyUmpire]

Oops, triple post. Nice job tapatalk

[mstaylor]

Not a lot, more in three man, two man is close.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[PonyUmpire]

The only reason I asked is I saw some posts about a "deep B" and "deep C" position, which made me think CCA was somehow more complex

[MidAmUmp]

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

[grayhawk]

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

[Richvee]

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

FED actually now has adopted deep B as the place to be when the infield is in.

[Richvee]

 

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

 

I guess the biggest one is FED's insistence on PU covering 3rd on the bases empty triple even if BU didn't go out. 

[grayhawk]

 

 

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

 

I guess the biggest one is FED's insistence on PU covering 3rd on the bases empty triple even if BU didn't go out. 

 

 

What the hell else does BU have to do on this play?  If there's an overthrow at third, who covers the play at home?

[Richvee]

 

 

 

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

 

I guess the biggest one is FED's insistence on PU covering 3rd on the bases empty triple even if BU didn't go out. 

 

 

What the hell else does BU have to do on this play?  If there's an overthrow at third, who covers the play at home?

 

I agree. This is what they "teach". BU has runner through 2nd, and he'd have the play at 2nd if BR retreated to 2nd. Once BR has "committed" to 3rd, BU is supposed to circle around the 1B side of the mound towards home for a possible play there from an overthrow at 3rd. 

 

From the FED manual..

"On an extra base hit, take the bR only as far as 2nd base. U1 has him@3rd. Be alert for the runner returning to 2nd or advancing home on an overthrow at 3rd. Cover the plate for U1"

   

[umpstu]

 

 

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

 

I guess the biggest one is FED's insistence on PU covering 3rd on the bases empty triple even if BU didn't go out. 

 

And I hate that. I pregame it and won't allow it. I also am not a fan of the base umpire covering home after he goes out. Just stay out and keep out of the way.

 

 

 

 

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

 

I guess the biggest one is FED's insistence on PU covering 3rd on the bases empty triple even if BU didn't go out. 

 

 

What the hell else does BU have to do on this play?  If there's an overthrow at third, who covers the play at home?

 

I agree. This is what they "teach". BU has runner through 2nd, and he'd have the play at 2nd if BR retreated to 2nd. Once BR has "committed" to 3rd, BU is supposed to circle around the 1B side of the mound towards home for a possible play there from an overthrow at 3rd. 

 

From the FED manual..

"On an extra base hit, take the bR only as far as 2nd base. U1 has him@3rd. Be alert for the runner returning to 2nd or advancing home on an overthrow at 3rd. Cover the plate for U1"

 

 

I hate that mechanic.

[umpstu]

 

 

 

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

 

I guess the biggest one is FED's insistence on PU covering 3rd on the bases empty triple even if BU didn't go out. 

 

 

What the hell else does BU have to do on this play?  If there's an overthrow at third, who covers the play at home?

 

Just a heads up. There is a new instructional chairman and he is a fantastic instructor. Knows umpiring like you wouldn't believe. He just stepped down from our unit in the Coachella Valley as there just isn't enough time in the day for him to be able to accomplish what he needs to get done. That means he has a job. I've umpired with him since 1998. I'm sure he may shake up some things in the CBUA as he's not a huge fan of the Fed mechanics.

[JaxRolo]

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual. It's pretty much been perfected. 3-man is a different story. Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in. It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association). That is crazy!

[Richvee]

Our association as 100% FED mechanics. It is what it is. I'm in no position to make waves. 

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Our association as 100% FED mechanics. It is what it is. I'm in no position to make waves. 

 

 It makes me very happy that we have our very own State mechanics manual, and do not have to use FED mechanics.

[dumbdumb]

They just want the PU to park at home now to extend their careers. They no longer have to go to 3rd base for anything other than this one play (triple which requires no hustle whatsoever, they can crawl on down or use their cane or wheelchair) which happens very rarely. BU is on his own on the bases and PU is on his own at home but PU is allowed to watch and make sure the BR does not try to cut through the cutout on the way to second like they did in the 1800's. Wouldn't want to miss that play to justify never going down to 3rd to help out anymore.

[Jimurray]

They just want the PU to park at home now to extend their careers. They no longer have to go to 3rd base for anything other than this one play (triple which requires no hustle whatsoever, they can crawl on down or use their cane or wheelchair) which happens very rarely. BU is on his own on the bases and PU is on his own at home but PU is allowed to watch and make sure the BR does not try to cut through the cutout on the way to second like they did in the 1800's. Wouldn't want to miss that play to justify never going down to 3rd to help out anymore.

I'm confused. Other than FED, the other codes, triple, no runners, BU takes it all the way to 3B. Otherwise, in every code on a hit to the outfield with an R1 only (with an R3 also your mileage may vary) the PU covers 3B. Tag ups the PU covers 3B with R1 and R2 but maybe FED does R2 without R1.

[Richvee]

 

They just want the PU to park at home now to extend their careers. They no longer have to go to 3rd base for anything other than this one play (triple which requires no hustle whatsoever, they can crawl on down or use their cane or wheelchair) which happens very rarely. BU is on his own on the bases and PU is on his own at home but PU is allowed to watch and make sure the BR does not try to cut through the cutout on the way to second like they did in the 1800's. Wouldn't want to miss that play to justify never going down to 3rd to help out anymore.

I'm confused. Other than FED, the other codes, triple, no runners, BU takes it all the way to 3B. Otherwise, in every code on a hit to the outfield with an R1 only (with an R3 also your mileage may vary) the PU covers 3B. Tag ups the PU covers 3B with R1 and R2 but maybe FED does R2 without R1.

 

Jim's right on U1's coverages of 3rd. . U1 is not "parked" in FED. For what it's worth, FED changed tag ups at 3rd with R2 only. BU now has that. 

[BT_Blue]

One thing I was very happy to learn when I moved up to Oregon from Los Angeles wa that Oregon uses a modified CCA book they call "Oregon Modified". It is almost word-for-word, pictagram-for-pictagram from CCA with the exception of the umpire in the middle not going out in 3 man. (This may have changed recently. I will have to look.) Washington also just recently came out with its own state mandated mechanics book. And wouldnt you know... just about word-for-word CCA.

[dumbdumb]

 

 

They just want the PU to park at home now to extend their careers. They no longer have to go to 3rd base for anything other than this one play (triple which requires no hustle whatsoever, they can crawl on down or use their cane or wheelchair) which happens very rarely. BU is on his own on the bases and PU is on his own at home but PU is allowed to watch and make sure the BR does not try to cut through the cutout on the way to second like they did in the 1800's. Wouldn't want to miss that play to justify never going down to 3rd to help out anymore.

I'm confused. Other than FED, the other codes, triple, no runners, BU takes it all the way to 3B. Otherwise, in every code on a hit to the outfield with an R1 only (with an R3 also your mileage may vary) the PU covers 3B. Tag ups the PU covers 3B with R1 and R2 but maybe FED does R2 without R1.

 

Jim's right on U1's coverages of 3rd. . U1 is not "parked" in FED. For what it's worth, FED changed tag ups at 3rd with R2 only. BU now has that. 

 

Thanks for the clarity. So do they still rotate to 3rd with a runner on R1 on first and a base hit no matter the number of outs. They go to 3rd on a tag up with runners at 1st and 2nd. Are there any other times they would rotate to 3rd? Just trying to clarify more.

And my comment was more towards the side of the HS games I am able to catch. Once inside at B or C a large number of umpires in my area just park in that spot and make all their calls without moving. Yes, they pivot or twirl around but moving seems to be out of the question. And no, they are not handicapped that I can tell. The most they move is when they have to come in on a ball hit to 3rd base where they have to get a 90% angle. That is the most taxing distance they move all day, oops, or to come in a base hit. And majority of times PU just stays behind the plate, maybe removing the mask, maybe not and just gets as far as the plate as far as moving up the line or taking a fly ball out. Oh yes, and to their credit, many times they work a very good game as far as the fact they do not miss any calls whatsoever when those plays that could prove how this lack of movement is just plain wrong to sit in one spot, never develop. Just a nice walk in the park, never break a sweat.

[Richvee]

Oh. Sorry. I thought we were talking about FED mechanics vs CCA mechanics, not hustling vs non hustling umpires. 

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

 

With the exception of the NFHS 2-man mechanics (which should be ignored at all cost), there's not much difference in 2-man in any other mechanics manual.  It's pretty much been perfected.  3-man is a different story.

 

Deep B and Deep C in 2-man is really only talking about moving back if the infield is playing in.  It's really an "unwritten" mechanic.

 

We've always used CCA since I have been in my HS association.  What are the significant differences between Fed and CCA for 2-man?  I ask because I hear we are being forced to move back to Fed mechanics this year or we lose our playoff assignments from the CBUA (California Baseball Umpires Association).

 

I guess the biggest one is FED's insistence on PU covering 3rd on the bases empty triple even if BU didn't go out. 

 

 

What the hell else does BU have to do on this play?  If there's an overthrow at third, who covers the play at home?

 

Just a heads up. There is a new instructional chairman and he is a fantastic instructor. Knows umpiring like you wouldn't believe. He just stepped down from our unit in the Coachella Valley as there just isn't enough time in the day for him to be able to accomplish what he needs to get done. That means he has a job. I've umpired with him since 1998. I'm sure he may shake up some things in the CBUA as he's not a huge fan of the Fed mechanics.

 

 

@umpstu - are you saying there's a new instructional chairman for the CBUA as a whole?  If so, is his name Brad?

[MidAmUmp]

Does anyone know (and I'm being serious) the justification NFHS has for the plate umpire rotating to 3rd and base umpire rotating home from 2nd with no runners on base?  I've never seen it explained anywhere.

 

Additionally, who is responsible for a situation where the B/R would commit to 3rd causing this "rotation" to occur, but then stumble, fall, whatever and have to retreat to 2nd base and there ends up being a play?  If the base umpire has started to the plate, he can't easily put on the brakes and get back for that play.

[grayhawk]

Does anyone know (and I'm being serious) the justification NFHS has for the plate umpire rotating to 3rd and base umpire rotating home from 2nd with no runners on base?  I've never seen it explained anywhere.

 

Additionally, who is responsible for a situation where the B/R would commit to 3rd causing this "rotation" to occur, but then stumble, fall, whatever and have to retreat to 2nd base and there ends up being a play?  If the base umpire has started to the plate, he can't easily put on the brakes and get back for that play.

 

I really can't imagine.  I initially thought that it was to relieve a BU with poor mobility from the need to beat a fast BR to third, be in position and set for the call there.  But if BU has to get to the working area for a potential call at second, and then beat a fast BR home once he commits to third, and be in position and set for that call as well - he has to have at least decent mobility to get there.  Perhaps they consider the chances of the play developing at home being so remote that they take their chances there and try to get an umpire in the best position for a play at 3rd instead since it's the more likely play.

 

IMO, if you can't beat a fast HS varsity level BR to third by hustling in splitting the difference, then maybe you shouldn't be umpiring this level of baseball.  One of the instructors at the clinic I attended a couple of weeks ago referred to umpires as "Industrial Athletes."  I think it's a good description since we have to endure a certain level of physical stress to do the job correctly.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

Does anyone know (and I'm being serious) the justification NFHS has for the plate umpire rotating to 3rd and base umpire rotating home from 2nd with no runners on base?  I've never seen it explained anywhere.

 

Additionally, who is responsible for a situation where the B/R would commit to 3rd causing this "rotation" to occur, but then stumble, fall, whatever and have to retreat to 2nd base and there ends up being a play?  If the base umpire has started to the plate, he can't easily put on the brakes and get back for that play.

 

I really can't imagine.  I initially thought that it was to relieve a BU with poor mobility from the need to beat a fast BR to third, be in position and set for the call there.  But if BU has to get to the working area for a potential call at second, and then beat a fast BR home once he commits to third, and be in position and set for that call as well - he has to have at least decent mobility to get there.  Perhaps they consider the chances of the play developing at home being so remote that they take their chances there and try to get an umpire in the best position for a play at 3rd instead since it's the more likely play.

 

IMO, if you can't beat a fast HS varsity level BR to third by hustling in splitting the difference, then maybe you shouldn't be umpiring this level of baseball.  One of the instructors at the clinic I attended a couple of weeks ago referred to umpires as "Industrial Athletes."  I think it's a good description since we have to endure a certain level of physical stress to do the job correctly.

 

 

This. This. And, oh yeah....THIS.