What Would You Do? Part III

[MidAmUmp]

So, ...it appears the major sticking point is:   Can an infielder re-establish himself for protection?  WUM seems to imply 'yes' ,....which is what Manny is running with .....  MLBUM is saying 'no' ....

 

@MidAmUmp

1) the NCAA interp you posted doesn't really break it down far enough, unless I missed something

2) what does umpire equipment have to do w/ the interpretation of this ruling?

 

Based on OBR, you'd have to lean toward MLBUM and have OBS ....

Once again...here is the NCAA A.R. for Interference -

If a fielder chases after a deflected batted ball ahead of a runner’s arrival and is

in the act of picking up the ball (fielding) when contact is made by an offensive player,

interference is the call.

 

In this video the pitcher is in the act of picking up the ball when the runner runs into him (see Manny's screen shot).  According to that, Interference, should be the correct call. 

 

Now having said that, I don't think ANYONE is good enough to be able to recognize this in real speed on a baseball field, and I would call Obstruction.  I'm not going to penalize the batter/runner for running down the line after a fielder deflected the baseball and they all 3 get to the same spot at virtually the same time.  Yes, the pitcher got to the ball and mili-second before the runner did (again as noted in Manny's screen shots) but I'm just not that good.

 

As far as equipment having anything to do with this play - it has nothing to do with this play, but we're 7 pages into a discussion about an actual play that happened (and could happen to any of us) and we're debating what the correct ruling is.  The point I was making is the current stats on this site: COMBINED there are 1256 posts made in the Situations and Umpire Mechanics topics while there are 1487 posts ALONE in Umpire Equipment, many debating stupid things such as tucking in a jacket and wearing a plate coat because you shouldn't wear a jacket behind the plate.  It's troublesome to me that guys would rather discuss equipment than handling situations and discussing mechanics.  These 2 things are what will advance you as an umpire much more than whether you have a Nike mask or a Power chest protector.  So this off-season I've made an effort to direct some discussions to topics that really matter vs. the typical off season bull ###### of how do you get dressed, brag about what's in your gear bag, and the need for a 5 gallon bucket with everything known to man in it for that just in case emergency when your partner starts his menstrual cycle in the 3rd inning of game 1 of an 8 game day.

[basejester]

If it's possible to re-establish but this play isn't considered in the act of fielding, that feels like a really small window of fielder protection (So small, why bother defining a special interpretation for it?)  Milliseconds later he'll actually possess the ball and therefore can't obstruct.

 

If there's no deflection off a fielder (suppose it hit the rubber), you'd protect F1 on this action, right?

[scrounge]

So what do you do when your partner starts his menstrual cycle in the 3rd inning of game 1 of an 8 game day????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[grayhawk]

So what do you do when your partner starts his menstrual cycle in the 3rd inning of game 1 of an 8 game day????

 

 

Apparently, you tell him to go to an online umpire forum and complain about the topics of conversation.

[Thunderheads]

 

So, ...it appears the major sticking point is:   Can an infielder re-establish himself for protection?  WUM seems to imply 'yes' ,....which is what Manny is running with .....  MLBUM is saying 'no' ....

 

@MidAmUmp

1) the NCAA interp you posted doesn't really break it down far enough, unless I missed something

2) what does umpire equipment have to do w/ the interpretation of this ruling?

 

Based on OBR, you'd have to lean toward MLBUM and have OBS ....

Once again...here is the NCAA A.R. for Interference -

If a fielder chases after a deflected batted ball ahead of a runner’s arrival and is

in the act of picking up the ball (fielding) when contact is made by an offensive player,

interference is the call.

 

In this video the pitcher is in the act of picking up the ball when the runner runs into him (see Manny's screen shot).  According to that, Interference, should be the correct call. 

 

Now having said that, I don't think ANYONE is good enough to be able to recognize this in real speed on a baseball field, and I would call Obstruction.  I'm not going to penalize the batter/runner for running down the line after a fielder deflected the baseball and they all 3 get to the same spot at virtually the same time.  Yes, the pitcher got to the ball and mili-second before the runner did (again as noted in Manny's screen shots) but I'm just not that good.

 

As far as equipment having anything to do with this play - it has nothing to do with this play, but we're 7 pages into a discussion about an actual play that happened (and could happen to any of us) and we're debating what the correct ruling is.  The point I was making is the current stats on this site: COMBINED there are 1256 posts made in the Situations and Umpire Mechanics topics while there are 1487 posts ALONE in Umpire Equipment, many debating stupid things such as tucking in a jacket and wearing a plate coat because you shouldn't wear a jacket behind the plate.  It's troublesome to me that guys would rather discuss equipment than handling situations and discussing mechanics.  These 2 things are what will advance you as an umpire much more than whether you have a Nike mask or a Power chest protector.  So this off-season I've made an effort to direct some discussions to topics that really matter vs. the typical off season bull ###### of how do you get dressed, brag about what's in your gear bag, and the need for a 5 gallon bucket with everything known to man in it for that just in case emergency when your partner starts his menstrual cycle in the 3rd inning of game 1 of an 8 game day.

 

Fine, ... but .... that certainly has nothing to do with what you've started here, right? I mean, ...why interject something that isn't there?

[ricka56]

It's troublesome to me that guys would rather discuss equipment than handling situations and discussing mechanics.

But sometimes you have to deal with a lot of SH*# that's not related to situation or mechanics.

[MidAmUmp]

That's fine. It was fun while it lasted. You guys move on to you usual discussions and I'll start counting my games. I've tried to offer some insight on what it takes to move up and offer my take on plays and situations to help the overall brotherhood. If it's not welcome I can and will move along.

[Thunderheads]

That's fine. It was fun while it lasted. You guys move on to you usual discussions and I'll start counting my games. I've tried to offer some insight on what it takes to move up and offer my take on plays and situations to help the overall brotherhood. If it's not welcome I can and will move along.

Ok, I give ....., .... what are you talking about?!?!?

This post is great, and has lots of great discussion.  Who says this isn't welcome?  Who called your "what would you do series" bad, crap, or otherwise?  Who came onto this thread and suggested we talk about something else?   Did I miss something in a post?  Did someone try to take this thread off course?

 

I'm confused ..................

[scrounge]

That's fine. It was fun while it lasted. You guys move on to you usual discussions and I'll start counting my games. I've tried to offer some insight on what it takes to move up and offer my take on plays and situations to help the overall brotherhood. If it's not welcome I can and will move along.

 

I was just having a little fun, to be honest I pretty much skip the equipment forum altogether. I deeply appreciate the posts and discussion you've brought.

[Mr Umpire]

If it's possible to re-establish but this play isn't considered in the act of fielding, that feels like a really small window of fielder protection (So small, why bother defining a special interpretation for it?)  Milliseconds later he'll actually possess the ball and therefore can't obstruct.

 

If there's no deflection off a fielder (suppose it hit the rubber), you'd protect F1 on this action, right?

Yes, he didn't deflect the ball and it is still a batted ball and not a deflected ball.

[grayhawk]

That's fine. It was fun while it lasted. You guys move on to you usual discussions and I'll start counting my games. I've tried to offer some insight on what it takes to move up and offer my take on plays and situations to help the overall brotherhood. If it's not welcome I can and will move along.

 

@MidAmUmp - you offer incredible insight into high level umpiring.  Not only for rules, interpretations and mechanics, but especially on the intangibles of game management.  If you were to not post, we would all be the poorer for it.  You also should remember that this is a message board, and much of the content will be of no interest to you.  If you prefer to not talk about gear, or how a jacket should or shouldn't be worn, or how tight a goatee should be shaved, it's best to just ignore it and not waste your time.  But I don't think it's appropriate to criticize others for their interests as they tend to vary widely.

[umpstu]

 

So, ...it appears the major sticking point is:   Can an infielder re-establish himself for protection?  WUM seems to imply 'yes' ,....which is what Manny is running with .....  MLBUM is saying 'no' ....

 

@MidAmUmp

1) the NCAA interp you posted doesn't really break it down far enough, unless I missed something

2) what does umpire equipment have to do w/ the interpretation of this ruling?

 

Based on OBR, you'd have to lean toward MLBUM and have OBS ....

Once again...here is the NCAA A.R. for Interference -

If a fielder chases after a deflected batted ball ahead of a runner’s arrival and is

in the act of picking up the ball (fielding) when contact is made by an offensive player,

interference is the call.

 

In this video the pitcher is in the act of picking up the ball when the runner runs into him (see Manny's screen shot).  According to that, Interference, should be the correct call. 

 

Now having said that, I don't think ANYONE is good enough to be able to recognize this in real speed on a baseball field, and I would call Obstruction.  I'm not going to penalize the batter/runner for running down the line after a fielder deflected the baseball and they all 3 get to the same spot at virtually the same time.  Yes, the pitcher got to the ball and mili-second before the runner did (again as noted in Manny's screen shots) but I'm just not that good.

 

As far as equipment having anything to do with this play - it has nothing to do with this play, but we're 7 pages into a discussion about an actual play that happened (and could happen to any of us) and we're debating what the correct ruling is.  The point I was making is the current stats on this site: COMBINED there are 1256 posts made in the Situations and Umpire Mechanics topics while there are 1487 posts ALONE in Umpire Equipment, many debating stupid things such as tucking in a jacket and wearing a plate coat because you shouldn't wear a jacket behind the plate.  It's troublesome to me that guys would rather discuss equipment than handling situations and discussing mechanics.  These 2 things are what will advance you as an umpire much more than whether you have a Nike mask or a Power chest protector.  So this off-season I've made an effort to direct some discussions to topics that really matter vs. the typical off season bull ###### of how do you get dressed, brag about what's in your gear bag, and the need for a 5 gallon bucket with everything known to man in it for that just in case emergency when your partner starts his menstrual cycle in the 3rd inning of game 1 of an 8 game day.

 

And don't forget a pig giving birth to a minnow in a perfect laboratory atmosphere in China. Damn that Obama. Keep politics off of here as well. Baseball is a release for me. I get away from the world.....

[umpstu]

So what do you do when your partner starts his menstrual cycle in the 3rd inning of game 1 of an 8 game day????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is this a light, spotting type of cycle or an extra wings type of day?

[24sdad]

@MidAmUmp Your posts are a valuable resource and much needed on this forum.  I agree with what you had to say...don't sweat the stuff you can't control and continue to post your high level insights.  Those who pay attention to it are better umpires for it.

[JaxRolo]

That's fine. It was fun while it lasted. You guys move on to you usual discussions and I'll start counting my games. I've tried to offer some insight on what it takes to move up and offer my take on plays and situations to help the overall brotherhood. If it's not welcome I can and will move along.

I for one learn a lot from these situations. Don't let these guys that b1tch about things ruin it for those that want to learn.

[Specks]

@MidAmUmp PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE! Your post are helpful. Sometimes these forums devolve into arguments, pi$$ing matches and fashion shows and sometimes that's fun but that shouldn't keep us from what's really important, learning. Remember when panning for gold you have to move a lot of dirt to find that one nugget, but's when you do it's worth it.

[Kevin_K]

Based on that Approved Ruling, and the shots of the video Ol' Tex has posted, I would be of the opinion that the batter should be called out for interference.

 

To be perfectly honest, the first time I saw the clip (which was a year or two ago) my immediate thought was to call the B/R out for interference. Over time I've changed my mind to obstruction.

 

I don't know if anyone is truely good enough to determine at full speed that the pitcher was in the act of fielding the deflection prior to contact.

 

This is a great example of thinking about your thinking. The ability to reflect on one's own thought processes and be able to change their view based on evidence and analysis indicates a high level of intelligence. Editorial aside: Too bad our country does not have leaders who value such abilities.

 

I could not agree more with the last part of that answer as well. All the follow up posts and in depth analysis is purely conjecture, but it all serves the purpose to get all of us to think about how we might react to a similar situation.

[MidAmUmp]

Alright...you fu#$ers have drawn me back in with your comments and pm's.  I'll pull some other situations and rules out of my ass for you to discuss.

[umpstu]

Alright...you fu#$ers have drawn me back in with your comments and pm's.  I'll pull some other situations and rules out of my ass for you to discuss.

I am bowing as I type, which isn't easy because I am thick around the waist. Waiting for my new shin guards to come in and wanting to know how fat guys look in plate coats?

[Kevin_K]

 

Alright...you fu#$ers have drawn me back in with your comments and pm's.  I'll pull some other situations and rules out of my ass for you to discuss.

I am bowing as I type, which isn't easy because I am thick around the waist. Waiting for my new shin guards to come in and wanting to know how fat guys look in plate coats?

 

 

I would say they look like fat guys in a plate coat?

[Mr Umpire]

 

 

Alright...you fu#$ers have drawn me back in with your comments and pm's.  I'll pull some other situations and rules out of my ass for you to discuss.

I am bowing as I type, which isn't easy because I am thick around the waist. Waiting for my new shin guards to come in and wanting to know how fat guys look in plate coats?

 

 

I would say they look like fat guys in a plate coat?

 

Like this if too small:

 

[johnnyg08]

Obstruction.  

 

Defensive player is allowed a step and reach to handle a bobbled ball.  This was more than a step and a reach.

 

Obstruction on BR before reaching first base is a dead ball award.

 

This is 100% NOT a "that's nothing" in any rule set.

[johnnyg08]

PBUC

7.29 Batter-Runner and Catcher Collide

When a catcher a batter-runner going to first base have contact while the catcher is attempting to field the ball, there is generally no violation and nothing should be called.

This means directly in front of home plate. A tangle/untangle right in front of the plate.

[Replacematt]

 

PBUC

7.29 Batter-Runner and Catcher Collide

When a catcher a batter-runner going to first base have contact while the catcher is attempting to field the ball, there is generally no violation and nothing should be called.

This means directly in front of home plate. A tangle/untangle right in front of the plate.

 

 

It also only applies to the catcher. The pitcher does not get immunity from obstruction.

[johnnyg08]

PBUC

7.29 Batter-Runner and Catcher Collide

When a catcher a batter-runner going to first base have contact while the catcher is attempting to field the ball, there is generally no violation and nothing should be called.

This means directly in front of home plate. A tangle/untangle right in front of the plate.

 

It also only applies to the catcher. The pitcher does not get immunity from obstruction.

good point