What Would You Do? Part II

[JaxRolo]

I still do not see where I would eject anyone. Runner made move to third. Fielder in the way. OBS award 3rd base.

 

Fielder was already off balance. Didn't really see that much contact. Didn't see any bad reactions from anyone. Play ball!

[MidAmUmp]

It looks more dick-head every time you look at it...gotta eject...the lack of reaction from the SS was surprising though....

You're Monday Morning QBing this.

 

You only get once chance to look at it in real time on the field.  That's what I'm getting at - watching it one time at live speed - what would you do? 

[MidAmUmp]

I still do not see where I would eject anyone. Runner made move to third. Fielder in the way. OBS award 3rd base.

 

Fielder was already off balance. Didn't really see that much contact. Didn't see any bad reactions from anyone. Play ball!

You're giving him 3rd on a throw that went 10 feet into the outfield?  I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking you to justify why.

[JaxRolo]

 

I still do not see where I would eject anyone. Runner made move to third. Fielder in the way. OBS award 3rd base.

 

Fielder was already off balance. Didn't really see that much contact. Didn't see any bad reactions from anyone. Play ball!

You're giving him 3rd on a throw that went 10 feet into the outfield?  I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking you to justify why.

 

If it is FED I would. OBR i'm not sure if it would be type A or B

[scrounge]

I don't think it was enough to rise to an ejection from just what was shown, but it's clearly a "do NOT do that again" warning. And I don't think it's an obstruction either...

 

Sounded like the HC immediately made a beeline to the PU, saying "YOU GOTTA FIX THIS"....wha?

[BRUMP]

tough one here….id prob go with nothing but as jocko said then some retaliation would probably come….warnings could follow or a straight EJ if they go head hunting

[th3]

 

It looks more dick-head every time you look at it...gotta eject...the lack of reaction from the SS was surprising though....

You're Monday Morning QBing this.

 

You only get once chance to look at it in real time on the field.  That's what I'm getting at - watching it one time at live speed - what would you do

Agreed...i didnt know what i had (so i had nothing) on 1st view...

[mrumpiresir]

I don't see MC here.  I think a stern warning to both teams would be more appropriate

 

Why do some umpires feel that there can be only the slightest incidental contact or someone has to go?  I have seen many on these boards proclaim "the runner must slide or avoid".  The rule book says "attempt to avoid". There can be legal, violent collisions in a HS game when everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing .

 

 We talk about the "wussification" of HS baseball and I think umpires who are quick to eject whenever contact occurs help to promote this thinking.

 

 I think the question I ask myself  is "was there unnecessary contact that may cause injury or a blatant attempt to cause injury?". If so, ejection is warranted and required.

[Thunderheads]

There's no attempt at 3rd here on R1 ..... there's no way in hell I'm getting OBS on this .....its not there and will turn into a $h1tstorm!

Jeff - via Tapatalk

[PonyUmpire]

I'd find it much easier to explain my EJ to the OC ("he deliberately pushed the shortstop over Jim"), than explaining a no-call to the DC. Not EJing here, in the opinion of this young and inexperienced umpire, sends the message that willful and deliberate contact is going to be tolerated.

[JaxRolo]

There's no attempt at 3rd here on R1 ..... there's no way in hell I'm getting OBS on this .....its not there and will turn into a $h1tstorm! Jeff - via Tapatalk

I think it's pretty obvious that he took a step or 2 towards 3rd. Not any different than the OBS at 3rd in the WS or a pick off at 1st that gets away and they get tangled. Brent Rice reinforced at the Camp that we need to make this call.

[Texas Manny]

How y'all got the idea that he was making an attempt to go to third out of that, I do not understand. He simply spun around from his pop-up slide, and boom, there was the fielder. The runner spun around on his left foot, which remained planted. There is no obstruction to be called. Again, I would not eject based on the physical actions alone, as any audible remarks, which could make a difference in swaying that decision, cannot be heard.

[Thunderheads]

There's no attempt at 3rd here on R1 ..... there's no way in hell I'm getting OBS on this .....its not there and will turn into a $h1tstorm!

Jeff - via Tapatalk

I think it's pretty obvious that he took a step or 2 towards 3rd.

Not any different than the OBS at 3rd in the WS or a pick off at 1st that gets away and they get tangled.

Brent Rice reinforced at the Camp that we need to make this call.

Agree to disagree my friend :-)

Jeff - via Tapatalk

[th3]

the base ump called time right? how come

[MidAmUmp]

 

There's no attempt at 3rd here on R1 ..... there's no way in hell I'm getting OBS on this .....its not there and will turn into a $h1tstorm! Jeff - via Tapatalk

I think it's pretty obvious that he took a step or 2 towards 3rd. Not any different than the OBS at 3rd in the WS or a pick off at 1st that gets away and they get tangled. Brent Rice reinforced at the Camp that we need to make this call.

 

The difference in the 2 plays is the location of the baseball.  The WS play, the ball went down the line and had no obstruction occurred, the runner would have scored.  In this video, the ball barely went 10 feet into the outfield and there's no legitimate way that runner would have advanced to 3rd had he not run into the SS.  Common sense and fair play.  Common sense and fair play.

[MidAmUmp]

Personally I wouldn't have called anything.

 

The runner pushing the fielder - I would have let it go, but I would have got between the players and told the runner to calm down and knock it off.

 

Concerning possible obstruction - I would have acknowledged there was contact between the runner and fielder, signalling safe and saying "That's nothing!"

 

Dealing with the head coach - If I were the plate umpire I would have directed him to the umpire responsible for the call. If I were the base umpire, I would have told the coach to come talk with me. I would have basically explained to him what I just wrote.

 

If there was retaliation later in the game - my partner and I would deal with it, issue warnings and eject as necessary.

[alex7]

Quality situation, MidUmp.  Thanks for the post.

 

IMO, it was a half-shove attempt to a SS already spinning/off-balance.  The more I look at it the more it looks like the push missed.  Looking at it just the first time, I too have nothing malicious, and any improper retaliation will be dealt with accordingly.  Like others have said, if someone were to EJ here, it wouldn't be that hard to explain to the OC and might settle things down.  

[JaxRolo]

There's no attempt at 3rd here on R1 ..... there's no way in hell I'm getting OBS on this .....its not there and will turn into a $h1tstorm! Jeff - via Tapatalk

I think it's pretty obvious that he took a step or 2 towards 3rd. Not any different than the OBS at 3rd in the WS or a pick off at 1st that gets away and they get tangled. Brent Rice reinforced at the Camp that we need to make this call. The difference in the 2 plays is the location of the baseball. The WS play, the ball went down the line and had no obstruction occurred, the runner would have scored. In this video, the ball barely went 10 feet into the outfield and there's no legitimate way that runner would have advanced to 3rd had he not run into the SS. Common sense and fair play. Common sense and fair play. Ok so I keep him at second. Let the play finish. Call time. Call OBS. Keep him at 2nd Edit: @midamump good point on just signaling That's Nothing

[MidAmUmp]

Quality situation, MidUmp.  Thanks for the post.

 

IMO, it was a half-shove attempt to a SS already spinning/off-balance.  The more I look at it the more it looks like the push missed.  Looking at it just the first time, I too have nothing malicious, and any improper retaliation will be dealt with accordingly.  Like others have said, if someone were to EJ here, it wouldn't be that hard to explain to the OC and might settle things down.  

I wouldn't fault anyone for ejecting the runner.  I can make an argument for malicious contact.  But sometimes the easiest thing to do is eject.  The hard thing to do is keep someone in the game and deal with the situation.

[MidAmUmp]

 

There's no attempt at 3rd here on R1 ..... there's no way in hell I'm getting OBS on this .....its not there and will turn into a $h1tstorm! Jeff - via Tapatalk

I think it's pretty obvious that he took a step or 2 towards 3rd. Not any different than the OBS at 3rd in the WS or a pick off at 1st that gets away and they get tangled. Brent Rice reinforced at the Camp that we need to make this call. The difference in the 2 plays is the location of the baseball. The WS play, the ball went down the line and had no obstruction occurred, the runner would have scored. In this video, the ball barely went 10 feet into the outfield and there's no legitimate way that runner would have advanced to 3rd had he not run into the SS. Common sense and fair play. Common sense and fair play. Ok so I keep him at second. Let the play finish. Call time. Call OBS. Keep him at 2nd

 

If you'll look up north a couple posts you'll see what I said I'd do.

[Richvee]

1st look I have nothing. My 1st thought watching this once,  was R1 popped up, spun, and F6 was there, sort of losing his balance, and throwing his arms out as to try to keep from falling backwards. As R1 spun, he just sort for swatted at the glove that looked like it was heading towards his face as F6 was falling over. Not maliciously, more like a natural swat that one would do when something's approaching your face. 

 

Watching it over and over I'm probably wrong, but once, that's what I had. As has  been said, if R1/2 had words along with this action, or if things have been tense throughout the game, I might see it different. However, if I've got a good game rolling along and nothing has happened that resembles bad blood or high tension or animosity between the two teams, then I have nothing. 

[afaber12]

Does this fall under the term "aggressive base-running"?

 

I think irrespective of however any MC rule might be worded, I'd have a hard time not ejecting R1 on this. If nothing else surely it falls under "unsportsmanlike conduct". I don't think you can rely on the lack of reaction from F6 as a way of determining there was no issue on his side with the contact. Without being able to hear what might've been said there, it looked to me like he was stopping his teammates from getting involved, in a "I'm OK, don't risk you guys getting tossed" kind of way. Maybe there's no reaction to the runner because he's dirty on himself for letting the ball get past him.

 

With the advantage of multiple views and watching in slow-mo... R1 comes up holding F6's left arm with his right hand, and then shoves F6 once he's got his left leg in behind F6's right leg to all but guarantee F6 goes down and not just away. All that followed up with a shift backwards and half-hearted attempt at raising his hands up in a "I didn't do that, I wasn't there, don't shoot me" gesture.

[elares]

My first thought was that the base runner reached out to try to keep the defender from falling and he fell anyway.  All the players were so calm.  No posturing or puffing or anything.  I'd sure like to know what BU saw and heard.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I do not see malicious contact. No obvious intent to injure. I do not see obstruction, due to the position of the ball, relative to the baserunner. If someone were to EJ the runner for unsporting conduct, I could muster some support for that position.  I personally do not think I would EJ, but rather have a stern word with the offending party, and likely his HC, also. Any perceived retaliation would result in immediate (if not sooner) disqualification from the game.

[Jimurray]

My quick response to the op which was without benefit of slow play was colored by the pop up slide and the runners facial expression and actions afterwood. A pop up slide ( in FED) is not illegal unless the runner contacts the fielder. But the combination of the runner's demeanor and the pop up slide which, absent the movement of the fielder, could have been illegal by itself, made me think MC. But, I have no problem with a no call and a warning. I do have a problem with obstruction.