Called third strike not caught by catcher

[keydetpiper]

What's the correct mechanic for U3K on a called third strike? First of all, I agree that a called third strike should probably be caught, but you can't always tell with the catchers in my local LL. 

 

Anyway, my usual K mechanic is to signal an out with a call of "Strike three, batter's out," and on the U3K I call "Strike three" and save the batter's out part until he actually is. Should I add something about the ball being uncaught, or on the ground?

 

I don't do anything more advanced that LL Minor (no U3K) or Major. 

[Scratch Franzeo]

Signal safe

[alex7]

Some guys say to call the 3rd strike just like strike 1 or 2, but say "strike 3" since the batter isn't out, instead of "punching him out" and follow that out with the safe mechanic while verbalizing the no catch / ball on the ground.

 

Others say their punch-out call isn't an absolute "out" call, so they punch the batter out, then go to the safe mechanic and verbalize the no catch / ball on the ground.

Signal safe

 

still gotta call the 3rd strike.

[ricka56]

There is a thread on U3K that might be of interest:

 

Umpire-Empire -> Speak Out -> Situations -> Uncaught Third Strike

[noumpere]

 

 

Anyway, my usual K mechanic is to signal an out with a call of "Strike three, batter's out,"

 

Don't do this.

[MidAmUmp]

No need to ever say "the batter's out".

 

On a dropped 3rd strike, make your call "strike 3" and signal safe.  If it's not obvious to everyone (ball rolling to the backstop) that it wasn't caught say "no catch".

[grayhawk]

No need to ever say "the batter's out".

 

On a dropped 3rd strike, make your call "strike 3" and signal safe.  If it's not obvious to everyone (ball rolling to the backstop) that it wasn't caught say "no catch".

 

What about on an uncaught third strike with 1st base occupied and less than two outs?  If this happens and the retired batter starts to run, I will give an emphatic "out" mechanic, and verbalize, "He's out!  Batter's out!" so that each side knows what I am ruling.  Are you saying I shouldn't be doing this?

[Texas Manny]

 

No need to ever say "the batter's out".

 

On a dropped 3rd strike, make your call "strike 3" and signal safe.  If it's not obvious to everyone (ball rolling to the backstop) that it wasn't caught say "no catch".

 

What about on an uncaught third strike with 1st base occupied and less than two outs?  If this happens and the retired batter starts to run, I will give an emphatic "out" mechanic, and verbalize, "He's out!  Batter's out!" so that each side knows what I am ruling.  Are you saying I shouldn't be doing this?

 

I do the same thing Gray. On an uncaught third strike, the mechanics taught to me by Joe Brinkman's are: "Strike Three!"  "(safe signal)No Catch!""No Catch!" Then pumping the first, "Batter's Out! Batter's Out!"

 

You have three things to rule on: 1) Pitch: Ball or Strike; 2) Catch or no catch of the pitch; and 3) Batter is out when 1st is occupied with less than 2 outs and runners on 1st and 2nd.

 

Little League doesn't allow a dropped third strike (1990) so if the rule has changed, pardon my dust. But that's what I do as taught, regardless of the level.

[Richvee]

LL majors now has D3K.

Why would you have to give a verbal "no catch" with less than 2 outs and 1st occupied? 

[Texas Manny]

LL majors now has D3K.

Why would you have to give a verbal "no catch" with less than 2 outs and 1st occupied? 

First, thank you for updating me on the Little League addition to D3K to 1st. It wasn't that way back in the late 80's/early 90's. Much appreciated.

 

You have to rule on three seperate actions when dealing with a dropped third strike. The pitch, the catch, and to elimate the confusion, "Batter's out! Batter's out!"

 

The dropped pitch, which is the secondary action, requires that the umpire rule on that act. Obviously, if the ball gets away, around the dirt/grass circle or beyond, you don't need to verbalize "No Catch!", but just give the "SAFE" mechanic. If the ball remains around the vicinity of the catcher, then give both verbal and physical mechanics.

 

Then you proceed to declare "Batter's Out! Batter's Out!" while giving the out mechanic.

 

This is the series of mechanics taught at the umpire schools.

[grayhawk]

No need to declare "no catch" with 1st base occupied with less than two outs - it's superfluous information.

[Texas Manny]

No need to declare "no catch" with 1st base occupied with less than two outs - it's superfluous information.

I respectfully disagree. It's not superfluous. It is an independent action that requires your ruling, and it is taught by all the professional schools. JE Maximizing pg 270; WUS, Section I, XXI.

 

That being said, I respect your individual choice on how you wish to umpire.

[24sdad]

 

No need to declare "no catch" with 1st base occupied with less than two outs - it's superfluous information.

I respectfully disagree. It's not superfluous. It is an independent action that requires your ruling, and it is taught by all the professional schools. JE Maximizing pg 270; WUS, Section I, XXI.

 

That being said, I respect your individual choice on how you wish to umpire.

 

Manny - my Maximizing may be a little older than yours, but on pg 30 Evans talks about how to call U3K and more importantly, the reason for a verbal and/or physical "no catch":

 

"By pointing to the ground (or safe signal) and verbally stating "balls on the ground!" or "no catch!", the umpire is giving the batter a fair chance to advance and, also, informing the catcher he may have other obligations to fulfill in order to retire the batter."

 

Since the batter can not legally advance and F2 has no responsibility to make a play on him, common sense would indicate Evans is not talking about an U3K with 1st occupied and less than two outs.  It does not matter if the pitch was caught or uncaught, the batter is out.  A verbal and/or physical "no catch" in this situation is, as grayhawk stated, "superfluous information."

[Scratch Franzeo]

I agree with @24sdad. U3K with a runner at first - signal or signal and verbalize strike three ... I then say, "batter's out."

[Texas Manny]

Thank you for your thoughts. I went back to the JE book, and he states, "...when the batter is legally entitled to advance..." I missed it when I read. I read too quickly.

 

I stand corrected and offer my apologies to GrayHawk. Mechanics only apply when batter can advance including when 1st is occupied WITH two outs. (Edited for correction).

[24sdad]

Thank you for your thoughts. I went back to the JE book, and he states, "...when the batter is legally entitled to advance..." I missed it when I read. I read too quickly.

 

I stand corrected and offer my apologies to GrayHawk. Mechanics only apply when batter can advance including when 1st and 2nd is occupied WITH two outs.

No worries Manny 

[Texas Manny]

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I went back to the JE book, and he states, "...when the batter is legally entitled to advance..." I missed it when I read. I read too quickly.

 

I stand corrected and offer my apologies to GrayHawk. Mechanics only apply when batter can advance including when 1st and 2nd is occupied WITH two outs.

No worries Manny 

 

Thanks. I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. I also do what's right to make things right.

[noumpere]

Thank you for your thoughts. I went back to the JE book, and he states, "...when the batter is legally entitled to advance..." I missed it when I read. I read too quickly.

 

I stand corrected and offer my apologies to GrayHawk. Mechanics only apply when batter can advance including when 1st and 2nd is occupied WITH two outs.

One thats why we have these boards because we all think we know something for sure but its based on a mis read of the material.  Two what does 2nd base have to do with this?

[Texas Manny]

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I went back to the JE book, and he states, "...when the batter is legally entitled to advance..." I missed it when I read. I read too quickly.

 

I stand corrected and offer my apologies to GrayHawk. Mechanics only apply when batter can advance including when 1st and 2nd is occupied WITH two outs.

One thats why we have these boards because we all think we know something for sure but its based on a mis read of the material.  Two what does 2nd base have to do with this?

 

Making the distinction with the particular D3K rule so there is no confusion.

[noumpere]

 

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I went back to the JE book, and he states, "...when the batter is legally entitled to advance..." I missed it when I read. I read too quickly.

 

I stand corrected and offer my apologies to GrayHawk. Mechanics only apply when batter can advance including when 1st and 2nd is occupied WITH two outs.

One thats why we have these boards because we all think we know something for sure but its based on a mis read of the material.  Two what does 2nd base have to do with this?

 

Making the distinction with the particular D3K rule so there is no confusion.

 

I still dont get it.  You can advance when there are two outs.  You cannot advance when there are lesst than two outs and first is occupied.  So, why did you say "1st and 2nd is occupied WITH two outs."  (Even the "1st" is not needed, but I get it -- I dont' see what the "2nd" has to do with any aspects of a D3K play.)

[basejester]

Occupation of second base isn't relevent.

[noumpere]

Thats my point and I was just trying to see if I miised something in Mannys explanation.

[Texas Manny]

Yes you are correct. First base occuppied with less than two outs. Second is irrelevant. Why did I stick 2nd in there?

[Jglopez7]

Strike signal,verbalize "no catch" and safe signal....believe it or not some coaches tell their players to run to first base regardless of the number of outs on a third strike (caught or not caught). I believe this is a tactic to have the catcher over throw first base and allow other runners to advance? I've seen this before at the lower levels LL mainly. On a junior or senior league game and above I am not running up first base line shouting "batters out batters out". Coaches and kids should know the game and rules by then.

[Larry in TN]

Yes you are correct. First base occuppied with less than two outs. Second is irrelevant. Why did I stick 2nd in there?

 

Maybe it was an uncaught third infield fly?  

 

 

Strike signal,verbalize "no catch" and safe signal....believe it or not some coaches tell their players to run to first base regardless of the number of outs on a third strike (caught or not caught). I believe this is a tactic to have the catcher over throw first base and allow other runners to advance? I've seen this before at the lower levels LL mainly. On a junior or senior league game and above I am not running up first base line shouting "batters out batters out". Coaches and kids should know the game and rules by then.

 

I've seen this done by LL coaches in Major through Junior divisions because many (most?) of the players will forget that it is an U3K situation and won't run immediately.