Umpire Tagged at 3B

[Rich Ives]

Sox/Tigers. What?  No discussion?  U3 was close enough to get tagged. Why? What was he thinking?

[UmpJeff]

Sox/Tigers. What?  No discussion?  U3 was close enough to get tagged. Why? What was he thinking?

He DID get tagged.

 

Could that be called Umpire Interference?  I believe that Pena would have tagged the runner out had he not tagged Drake instead.

[ricka56]

I unsuccessfully looked for the video...was hoping someone found it.

What ever happened to philosphy of being back further, so that:

 

a) you have a better perspective when the tag is <-here and the touch is there->

b) not letting what happened last night happen to you.

[Maineac]

 

Sox/Tigers. What?  No discussion?  U3 was close enough to get tagged. Why? What was he thinking?

He DID get tagged.

 

Could that be called Umpire Interference?  I believe that Pena would have tagged the runner out had he not tagged Drake instead.

 

No way Pena gets him. Turned the wrong way to make the tag and the fact that he ran into Drake shows he couldn't see where he was reaching. Coming around blind like that Pena would have to have been extremely lucky to get Middlebrooks before he got to the bag. I don't think Drake ever expected Pena to turn that way for the tag, and I don't think Pena ever expected the umpire to be that close to the play. Bad luck for Pena, IMO.

[maven]

http://wapc.mlb.com/play?content_id=31155419

[24sdad]

 

Sox/Tigers. What?  No discussion?  U3 was close enough to get tagged. Why? What was he thinking?

 

 

Could that be called Umpire Interference?  

 

2. ©  Umpire’s interference occurs (1) when a plate umpire hinders, impedes or prevents a catcher’s throw attempting to prevent a stolen base or retire a runner on a pick-off play, or (2) when a fair ball touches an umpire on fair territory before passing a fielder.

Rule 2.00 (Interference ©) Comment: Umpire interference may also occur when an umpire interferes with a catcher returning the ball to the pitcher. 

[ricka56]

 

No way Pena gets him. Turned the wrong way to make the tag and the fact that he ran into Drake shows he couldn't see where he was reaching. Coming around blind like that Pena would have to have been extremely lucky to get Middlebrooks before he got to the bag. I don't think Drake ever expected Pena to turn that way for the tag, and I don't think Pena ever expected the umpire to be that close to the play. Bad luck for Pena, IMO.

 

Are we going to argue/speculate about another thing that is impossible to prove/disprove? How about discussing what we can see.

 

Bad luck for Pena? I think it was bad blank for U3.  Fill-in the blank.

[JaxRolo]

 

 

Sox/Tigers. What?  No discussion?  U3 was close enough to get tagged. Why? What was he thinking?

He DID get tagged.

 

Could that be called Umpire Interference?  I believe that Pena would have tagged the runner out had he not tagged Drake instead.

 

No way Pena gets him.

 

I disagree. I think it was still very possible for Pena to get him.

 

Drake couldn't have been any closer without actually standing on the base! Yikes.

[blue23ll]

Hey, Drake was very comfortable on his knee, focused intently on the base and the incoming runner.....no wait, the ball is arriving, but Rob isn't looking at the ball...ooops...

 

The lesson to learn is, don't get set so close, so early and not watch the ball.

[hbk314]

Bad defense all around and I don't think he was going to get an out either way.

[Mr Umpire]

Bad defense all around and I don't think he was going to get an out either way.

Other than F4 going to 1B instead of 3B (which is usually what occurs when F3 stays home), how was it bad defense?  F2 did his job.  As soon as F5 fielded the ball, F2 covered 3B.  What was wrong with the defensive coverage?

 

The only bad part of the play was the throw to 3B.

[mstaylor]

The bad defense was the throw was on the wrong side, then Pena turned the wrong. Drake got that close because he is expecting a bang/bang and wanted to be on top of it. 

[dumbdumb]

First thing I noticed at :44 is a catcher dogging it up the line and then trying to turn on the jets at :48 when he see the runner is going to go for it, because the runner notices him dogging it and thinks he can beat him to 3rd. Had the catcher hustled his butt off like he is paid to do, rather than just going through the motions, then this play may not have happened to start with.

Play did not turn out like the majority because of the lousy throw and it is now obvious that the umpire should have been back a little further (with no time to readjust) due to a busted play, with poor player hustle and terrible throw to the wrong side of the bag, because the 1st baseman was also surprised rather than looking for this possible play to start with.

Just like being on the hip pocket at home the umpire gets in perfect position for the play that happens 99 percent of the time but in this good old 1% the player goes the totally opposite way to make the tag due to the horse manure throw. And just like on an overthrow at first and the runner makes a late wide turn to go to 2nd and runs into the umpire, it is play on, so sad, to bad, your dad.

[JaxRolo]

First thing I noticed at :44 is a catcher dogging it up the line and then trying to turn on the jets at :48 when he see the runner is going to go for it, because the runner notices him dogging it and thinks he can beat him to 3rd. Had the catcher hustled his butt off like he is paid to do, rather than just going through the motions, then this play may not have happened to start with. Play did not turn out like the majority because of the lousy throw and it is now obvious that the umpire should have been back a little further (with no time to readjust) due to a busted play, with poor player hustle and terrible throw to the wrong side of the bag, because the 1st baseman was also surprised rather than looking for this possible play to start with. Just like being on the hip pocket at home the umpire gets in perfect position for the play that happens 99 percent of the time but in this good old 1% the player goes the totally opposite way to make the tag due to the horse manure throw. And just like on an overthrow at first and the runner makes a late wide turn to go to 2nd and runs into the umpire, it is play on, so sad, to bad, your dad.

I will have to disagree that Drake was in perfect position. 5-6 feet back then maybe. But Standing on the base is not perfect.

[Texas Manny]

 

First thing I noticed at :44 is a catcher dogging it up the line and then trying to turn on the jets at :48 when he see the runner is going to go for it, because the runner notices him dogging it and thinks he can beat him to 3rd. Had the catcher hustled his butt off like he is paid to do, rather than just going through the motions, then this play may not have happened to start with. Play did not turn out like the majority because of the lousy throw and it is now obvious that the umpire should have been back a little further (with no time to readjust) due to a busted play, with poor player hustle and terrible throw to the wrong side of the bag, because the 1st baseman was also surprised rather than looking for this possible play to start with. Just like being on the hip pocket at home the umpire gets in perfect position for the play that happens 99 percent of the time but in this good old 1% the player goes the totally opposite way to make the tag due to the horse manure throw. And just like on an overthrow at first and the runner makes a late wide turn to go to 2nd and runs into the umpire, it is play on, so sad, to bad, your dad.

I will have to disagree that Drake was in perfect position. 5-6 feet back then maybe. But Standing on the base is not perfect.

 

I agree. Usual distance is 10-12 feet from the bag. I don't know why Mr. Drake was so close to the bag, or what his thinking was. Just from viewing the film this can be used as a training instance of not getting so close because the play can explode on you and envelop you.

[Maineac]

 

 

No way Pena gets him. Turned the wrong way to make the tag and the fact that he ran into Drake shows he couldn't see where he was reaching. Coming around blind like that Pena would have to have been extremely lucky to get Middlebrooks before he got to the bag. I don't think Drake ever expected Pena to turn that way for the tag, and I don't think Pena ever expected the umpire to be that close to the play. Bad luck for Pena, IMO.

 

Are we going to argue/speculate about another thing that is impossible to prove/disprove? How about discussing what we can see.

 

Bad luck for Pena? I think it was bad blank for U3.  Fill-in the blank.

 

OK, let's. I see a catcher turning the wrong way after a bad throw. Chances of getting an out there even without the umpire in the way? Minimal. If he hustles down the line like dumbdumb said or if it's Avila, the odds go way up. In fact, the runner probably doesn't even try to get to third. Of course, that's just speculation on my part.

[ricka56]

self editted/deleted

[kylejt]

I don't think I've ever seen an umpire, at any level, get that close to a play without the ball being there already. Lots of lessons to be learned there.

 

And fellas, don't defend your heroes when they're wrong. Just admit it, like I'm sure Mr. Drake did in the locker room, and learn from it.

[dumbdumb]

I don't think I've ever seen an umpire, at any level, get that close to a play without the ball being there already. Lots of lessons to be learned there.

 

And fellas, don't defend your heroes when they're wrong. Just admit it, like I'm sure Mr. Drake did in the locker room, and learn from it.

 

Yes, I think we all know that in this case being as close as one can get, can get one in trouble as it did in this case and Mr. Drake is keenly aware of that fact. We will never know what would have happened as far as safe/out without what actually transpired. It is only conjecture but???????????????

 

 

We do not think they are heroes, and they do make mistakes and are wrong and we have to move on as mentioned, but why does it seem sometimes (no, not you personally kj) and got me thinking while on the topic and just kinda scratching my head that there always seems to be an """"undercurrent"""" of insisting that we come on here sometimes to just bash the ever loving sh?t out of the pro guys??? What is it that some get their rocks off on by seeing the pro guys when they faulter. Just what is the sheer pleasure of making sure everybody know that these guys miss one.

Statistically, all umpires at all levels are making the absolute best calls that one might see at the professional player level and umpires all over this country are making the same absolute horrible calls that one sees at the professional player level.

What is it that makes some want to continually to point out their faults with sheer glee and utter contempt for the pro guys. There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying the player would have been out regardless of where the umpire was, or saying the player would have been safe regardless of where the umpire was as everyone has to deal with the play as presented. Nobody is shying away from the fact the umpire in this case ended up being too close simply because the tag was made the opposite way he was set up for. And yes, this could have certainly been a little too close to set up in the first place no matter what. Just what is that undercurrent of animosity (is the only word I can use to describe it) towards the MLBU.

Just what is it out there and help explain this "undercurrent" of bad taste for the MLBU. Something must have happened somewhere for this feeling amongst all us professional umpires everywhere that causes this undercurrent. Fan, player, Coach, Manager undercurrent I understand, but umpire to umpire I just do not understand. That guy I ran into never ever mentioned this undercurrent and *******not till reading (not so much or very often here thanks goodness) on different sites******* did I start realizing with horror quite frankly of this utter contempt for the MLBU by fellow professional amateur player umpires. Just what am I missing and where does it all go back to. Please somebody enlighten me to an umpire that sank the Ninta, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria that started all this.

 

Now, if these guys are that bad, and there are plenty of people who know they themselves are that good, then "why not" go to the school so we can one day watch future umps who rarely ever miss a call like is apparently happening all the time at the amateur player level and when there is a miss, it takes a microscope to find it. That is what MLB is looking for. It will only take 8 years of MiLB with 2 to 3 of those 8 as a call up earning close to 100k or more and then full time at 125k or more as a 26-30 year old, moving on up to 400k and that is at the present time. We need the people and so does MLB that "know" they can do a better job to go to the school. They will absolutely be thrilled to get the next Babe Ruth of umpiring and since many umpires working amateur players fit that bill, they will be even more pleased with getting the best of the best. If you are the "1" Babe Ruth, they "will" find a spot for you.

 

I want to see all the calls from all of our games so we can each gasp in horror at all the gross misses we have ever made, including those that we missed by a mile but thought we were correct by a mile, not just the professional player examples of hits and misses.

 

 

 

So, my first question----why do we continually have some that get ever loving delite, sheer joy and pleasure and utmost glee and happiness in seeing a pro umpire miss, whether microscopically or by a mile? What did MLBU's do to us personally to bring upon that great desire to point out a miss each and every time they make one. Did they come on TV and say professional umpires of amateur players s&ck and are a waste of human excrement? Just what happened that I missed that brings on all the hateful feelings and utter contempt towards the guys who umpire professional players???? Please enlighten me. There is absolutely no doubt that the professional player umpires miss calls and also get caught out of position, both when the play that materialized caused them to be out of position and there was no time to correct that position, as well as incorrectly reading a play that materialized to start with and being out of position.

 

 

 

And once again, where is that coaching and player website where one can go to bash on coaches and players??????

[blue23ll]

I never get any delight, pleasure or glee (does anyone really ever use that word?) when any of my brethren make an error. It pains me greatly. However, we need to learn from it, all of us, and the only way we can is to constructively talk about it. I only speak for myself, but I am sure 99% of those who post here get no pleasure from MLB umpires mistakes.

[dumbdumb]

I never get any delight, pleasure or glee (does anyone really ever use that word?) when any of my brethren make an error. It pains me greatly. However, we need to learn from it, all of us, and the only way we can is to constructively talk about it. I only speak for myself, but I am sure 99% of those who post here get no pleasure from MLB umpires mistakes.

Completely agree. But enlighten me to the other 1% whether here on this site or other sites.

[Texas Manny]

I never get any delight, pleasure or glee (does anyone really ever use that word?) when any of my brethren make an error. It pains me greatly. However, we need to learn from it, all of us, and the only way we can is to constructively talk about it. I only speak for myself, but I am sure 99% of those who post here get no pleasure from MLB umpires mistakes.

I too certainly do not get any delight, pleasure, or glee from anyone's mistakes when they are made. In fact, it annoys me when I see other umpires destructively criticize other umpires for an error they made. It is one thing to constructively criticize, analyze, and discuss professionally what may of gone wrong. It's another to personally attack them for either the call they made, or other people who, in no offending manner, try to decipher what happened, and offer an agreeing viewpoint, or a dissension, based on experience and/or facts, rather than just emotion. We all have something to learn from one another. Use what you can, what works best for you, and leave the rest alone. Just because someone differs doesn't necessarily make them wrong/right. Like another on the board said, in umpiring, there is a lot of "grey" that needs to be turned "black or white". No racial bias intended.  

[zm1283]

I don't think I've ever seen an umpire, at any level, get that close to a play without the ball being there already. Lots of lessons to be learned there.

 

And fellas, don't defend your heroes when they're wrong. Just admit it, like I'm sure Mr. Drake did in the locker room, and learn from it.

 

Yeah, I defend umpires as much as anyone, but he was too close.  No bashing, just my opinion.  I think he would do it differently if given another chance.

 

I'm not positive that the runner would have been out, but either way it just looks bad when the fielder tags the umpire on the way to tag the runner.  I don't like it either when people's first reaction to umpire mistakes is "Well the players screwed up too!", as if that's a justification for getting calls wrong. (This call wasn't wrong)  We're expected to get calls right no matter what happens.  And yes, goofy stuff will happen that will cause you to miss calls, but it's not an excuse.  

[kylejt]

 

 

 

And once again, where is that coaching and player website where one can go to bash on coaches and players??????

 

ESPN.com

[ricka56]

 

 

 And once again, where is that coaching and player website where one can go to bash on coaches and players??????

 

ESPN.com

 

 

Come on--coaches have to have a forum of their own just like this one (umpire empire) and players have to have one also. What are they.

 

They would if they could ever get past this.