Who's the head coach? Pregame meeting, lineup changes

[JHSump]

NFHS.

 

I know the head coach is supposed to attend the plate meeting.  But I don't know who is the head coach and who is an assistant.  Am I supposed to assume the person attending the plate meeting is the head coach?

 

Then, later, I should expect any lineup changes will be communicated to me by that "head coach" (the guy that attended the plate meeting).  Correct?

 

If, on the other hand, someone else comes to me with a lineup change, what am I supposed to do?  Accept the change, ask, "Who are you?", ask the coach that attended the plate meeting to come out, or what?

[plateumpire]

I have been told to confirm with them that they are the head coaches at the meeting.

[spiritump]

the coach that comes to the plate meeting is the head coach to you--that means he is the only one who can come out on you, and ask question, etc, etc.  If any one else comes out and says he is the head coach --you tell him he should of been at the plate meeting.  On the subject of changes I will let any coach give me the line up change.

[IABlue]

the coach that comes to the plate meeting is the head coach to you--that means he is the only one who can come out on you, and ask question, etc, etc.  If any one else comes out and says he is the head coach --you tell him he should of been at the plate meeting.  On the subject of changes I will let any coach give me the line up change.

I agree with everything except the very last sentence.  You should not be accepting lineup changes from assistant coaches.

 

But whoever was at the plate meeting is the head coach for that game.

[Jocko]

In HS, I take changes from whomever gives them to me. Considering the fact that unannounced subs are legal, I figure it makes my job easier. The pinch hitter can come to me and say he's hitting for #14 or whatever.

As far as discussing situations, the HC is the man at the plate, unless he informs me that the real HC has been unduly detained and isn't onsite. If the HC is at the field, he is to be at the plate meeting.

[ricka56]

In HS the HC is required (by rulebook) to attend the plate meeting. In other codes it may not be written, but I assume HC came to the plate meeting, anyone else later claiming to be the HC isn't for this game.

 

You can take LU changes from anyone, but you should verify the change with the HC. If the AC giving you the LU change says that he's the HC, then "not for this game. If you were the HC, you would have been at the plate meeting".

 

I'm not playing musical HCs (Homey don't play that). The HC was the one at the plate meeting.

[bam]

In HS, I take changes from whomever gives them to me. Considering the fact that unannounced subs are legal, I figure it makes my job easier. The pinch hitter can come to me and say he's hitting for #14 or whatever.

As far as discussing situations, the HC is the man at the plate, unless he informs me that the real HC has been unduly detained and isn't onsite. If the HC is at the field, he is to be at the plate meeting.

I am a little bit flexible on this - if the HC is preoccupied with some equipment/player issues and I know him to be the head coach, I'll mention to the AC at the plate that the HC is supposed to be here. Now, if the guy is being a dick during the game, I can use the restriction as a tool, but have yet to have to do so.

I can count on two fingers the # of times this has happened.

I can count on more than two fingers the # of times an AC who attended the plate meeting tries to talk to me about calls during the game.

[noumpere]

Get the name from the HS website and if someone else introduces himself at the meeting then maybe ask about it.  After you've been in the league for one season you'll know the coaches.

[VAUmp]

The head coach must attend the plate meeting.  The only way he is "excused" is if he is attending to an injured player.  If the head coach isn't at the plate meeting, by rule is restricted to the bench for the entire game.

[Dannytheman]

Am I the only one who walks up to the coaches and asks? I get there early, I walk onto the field and look for issues, and introduce myself to them. Hi, I'm Dan, are you the manager? Then I find out. Then I walk to other side, to adults with other team and repeat.

 

Then when I call the plate meeting, I try to call them by name. Tom, Harry plate meeting in one minute.

[zm1283]

 

the coach that comes to the plate meeting is the head coach to you--that means he is the only one who can come out on you, and ask question, etc, etc.  If any one else comes out and says he is the head coach --you tell him he should of been at the plate meeting.  On the subject of changes I will let any coach give me the line up change.

I agree with everything except the very last sentence.  You should not be accepting lineup changes from assistant coaches.

 

But whoever was at the plate meeting is the head coach for that game.

 

 

And for what reason? (Other than being a reda**)

[ricka56]

HS is different. Since the Fed made it mandatory that HC attend the plate meeting (restriction if he doesn't)(3.2.4) we don't have this problem is HS games.

 

But on w/e tournament games, I have no idea who the HC is supposed to be and I'm not willing to play the "no I AM the HC, I can come dispute a call with you" game. This AC (for this game) goes back to the dugout or parking lot. I don't think its being redass. I'll talk to the HC, but not musical HCs.

[JHSump]

Added information, I finally figured out:  

 

My OP was prompted by an NFHS game I did on Tuesday.  I have now looked online and found a team picture, confirming what I thought might be the case --- an assistant coach came out for the plate meeting. I treated the AC as if he was the HC, since I didn't have any information to the contrary.  Later the actual head coach of that team brought me a lineup change.  Just from the way he spoke, "I'm going to make this change,..." he sounded like the HC, which surprised me.  But I didn't question it at the time.  Seemed over the top to worry about it at that stage (it was their last at bat, they were losing by 4 runs, 1 out, pitcher was dominating, it looked like he just wanted to give some kid an at bat before the game ended).

 

The point of my OP was to figure out how I should have handled this entire situation, starting with the plate meeting, and later lineup change.  I want to avoid having to guess who is the HC.  Some have suggested here that at every plate meeting I ask if the coaches at the plate meeting are the HCs.  Others have suggested I just treat any coach not coming to the plate meeting as an AC.  Finally, most of you suggested I take lineup changes from anyone, but there was no consensus on that either.

 

Guess I'll just have to think about this some more...

[grayhawk]

Make sure you understand the FULL rule in Fed about the HC at the plate meeting.  Read Jocko's post above because there are circumstances where the HC does not attend the plate meeting and can still act as the HC during the game.

 

As Danny said, I confirm who the HC is when I arrive and introduce myself.  If HC is not there, then I find out why and then deal with it from there.

[ricka56]

You handled this like I would have (right or wrong). HS, with professional coaches is different from select/rec with daddy coaches. No one in your sitch was causing a problem, why cause one yourself. While you were within your rights (according to what some in our chapter call that "book of suggestions") to restrict this HC, it is seldom wise to do so (unless someone/somehow is trying to cause a problem). 

[JHSump]

Make sure you understand the FULL rule in Fed about the HC at the plate meeting.  Read Jocko's post above because there are circumstances where the HC does not attend the plate meeting and can still act as the HC during the game.

 

As Danny said, I confirm who the HC is when I arrive and introduce myself.  If HC is not there, then I find out why and then deal with it from there.

Yes.  There are circumstances to consider.  Perhaps the only way to check all this is to just ask the coaches at the plate meeting if they are the HCs.  If one is not, ask where is the HC.

 

Thanks to everyone for their answers.

 

Just for completeness for others looking in on this post, here is the pertinent NFHS rule and the Casebook situations:

 

3-2-4: ART. 4 . . . The head coach must attend the pregame conference, if available.  PENALTY: The head coach will be restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game, except to attend to a sick or injured player, if he refuses to attend the pregame conference.

 

3.2.4 SITUATION A: The head coach of Team A is caught in traffic and (a) has notified his assistant he will be 30 minutes late or (b) does not notify anyone at the game site.  RULING: In both (a) and (b), the assistant coach may represent the team at the pregame conference and must certify that his team is legally and properly equipped. The head coach is not restricted and may assume normal duties upon his arrival.

 

3.2.4 SITUATION B:  The head coach of Team A dislikes the umpire-in-chief and refuses to leave the dugout to attend the pregame conference. In his place, he sends the assistant coach and team captain to the pregame conference.  RULING: The head coach is restricted to the dugout for the duration of the game. The assistant coach must represent the team at the pregame conference and must certify that his team is legally and properly equipped.

 

3.2.4 SITUATION C:  The head coach of Team A is (a) on the bus, tending to an injured player or (b) in the bullpen, supervising his pitcher's warmup or © finishing field preparations. In both (b) and © he refuses the request of the umpire-in-chief to attend the pregame conference. In all cases, he sends the assistant coach and team captain to the pregame conference.  RULING: In (a), the head coach is legal, is not restricted and may assume normal duties upon his return. In (b) and ©, the head coach is restricted to the dugout for the duration of the game. The assistant coach must represent the team at the pregame conference and must certify that his team is legally and properly equipped.

[Jocko]

For the sake of clarification, here's what I do before every HS game:

Arrive an hour or so early (minimum 30 minutes, barring extenuating circumstances)

Upon arrival, my partner and I park together at our prearranged spot.

We walk to the field and announce to HTHC that we are on site and ask if there are any issues

We go back to our staging area for pregame and dressing out

10 minutes prior to 1st pitch, we take the field and give it a once over

5 minutes prior to 1st pitch, we call HCs to the plate

Introductions, shake hands and confirm that both HCs are at the plate

(If not, why not?)

Take lineups (I write HCs names on their lineups)

No need splitting hairs in tourneys. I confirm that the ACs understand I will only discuss with HCs and leave it at that.

No need to be an OOO

[Rich Ives]

OK - so what happened that made FED care a whit about who was at the plate meeting?

[HokieUmp]

OK - so what happened that made FED care a whit about who was at the plate meeting?

 

Isn't it because only head coaches/managers are the ones that are supposed to be arguing calls/addressing the umpires during the game?  So, the guy at the plate meeting is the easiest way to know who is That Guy?  (And I thought all rule codes had something about only HC/managers were to be The Arguer.)

[scrounge]

OK - so what happened that made FED care a whit about who was at the plate meeting?

 

Just speculating, but I'd bet it was the 'game as extension of the classroom' philosophy, requiring the head coach to visibly be the leader of the team and not be able to delegate that. Frankly, for a school game I agree.

[Rich Ives]

 

OK - so what happened that made FED care a whit about who was at the plate meeting?

 

 (And I thought all rule codes had something about only HC/managers were to be The Arguer.)

 

 

Official interface - yes.  But:

 

OBR 2.00 A COACH is a team member in uniform appointed by the manager to perform such duties as the manager may designate, such as but not limited to acting as base coach.

 

4.01 (a) First, the home manager, or his designee, shall give his batting order to the umpire-in-chief, in duplicate.

 

In pro ball everyone knows who the manager is so they don't care if a coach, or even a player goes to the plate meeting.

[JHSump]

OK - so what happened that made FED care a whit about who was at the plate meeting?

 

Only a guess: NFHS is about school, kids, and the responsible adults.  The adult with the ultimate responsibility for the players is the Head Coach.

 

This rule may not have come about because of some incident.

[mstaylor]

I think it simply brings it inline with other sports. Many, soccer, basketball, football, just the captains came out. Things that were supposed to be taken back were not being relayed. Therefore, FED decided to require the head coach/ manager to come out, hear the instructions and verify the players were all legal.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[zm1283]

I think Michael is right.  I know that baseball, softball, football, and basketball are all the same in this regard.  Like he said, I'm sure the rest of the sports like volleyball and soccer are the same also.

[treydawgmt]

I've never had an issue with this, but a few times have had an AC come to the plate meeting.  Each time it was told to me either at the meeting or before by the HC tha the was letting the AC be the HC this game.  This has only been at Freshman & Sophomore levels, and the HC acted just like an AC and the AC just like a HC the whole game.  I'm guessing I wouldn't allow this at a varsity level, but I'm also guessing at the varsity level it wouldn't happen.  While technically this probably isn't allowed, I see not problem at all with it, and allow it to happen.  But, whomever comes to the plate meeting is the HC and the only one who can talk to me.